Extermanatus.

>>950847
A great flood?

Bury something insanely powerful beneath their city and make them go after it or lose everything.

>>950862
I've tried natural disasters.

they have wizards.

after the first tornado they set up a squad to watch and manipulate the weather to optimize growing temperatures.

Create some sort of super evil "kill the world" BBEG with an awesome army that can pull it off who just now decided to start his doom crusade, starting with the places near their stronghold. Should get them to either go after him, or be attacked.

If you're super pissed about their base shit, make the guy's army able to completely fuck them over or something.

Any large population of people is going to attract its own set of problems. Crime, racism, in fighting, sexual assault, you name it if you get enough people crammed together it'll appear. After awhile they're going to wish they were up against a tarrasque. For starters I suggest a good old fashioned elf lynching.

A fanatical Bard/Marshal/Cleric/Morninglord of Lathander blows his alphorn to make everyone within a 1d10 mile radius Fanatic for him. Luckily for the players, they were out on an adventure or business trip, but now they have the entire city turned against them.

>>950869

The head wizard in charge of weather manipulation is a closet pedo ( or isn't, doesn't matter ). A young half elf child comes up to a PC, tears in his/her eyes and says the bad man touched her naughty place. Even if the wizard didn't do it, there's going to be a huge public outcry and the PCs might find that it's easier to just have a kangaroo court and exile the offending wizard. Or silence the kid somehow. Either way it should be interesting role play/decision making, and it might open up the weather avenue somewhat.

>>950869
Your party hates you
>>950872
>For starters I suggest a good old fashioned elf lynching
I like where this is going...

>>950869

Also, maybe all of that fucking with the weather is going to have consequences elsewhere ( neighboring country not getting enough rain, views the weather manipulation as an attack ) or at the very least piss off a God/godess/elemental/whatever that thinks that it's his/her job to control the weather

An aerial bombardment of Enlarged Horrid Wiltings, then Mass Charm Person the survivors and open a Gate or two to the plane where your shock troops are waiting.

Demon worshiping priest posses as a member of a legit good sect and tries to convince people that the PCs are really evil.

>>950872
This anon has the right idea. . .to a degree. One hand, these more realistic problems are much trickier to address that a monster in need of slaying. On the other hand, they also have the potential to be alot less fun- If "after awhile they're going to wish they were up against a tarrasque.", that's not necessarily a good thing.

What you want are problems that lend realism to the game and force the players to think in new ways, while still being "solvable" in some fashion. A highly addictive drug is seeing an exponential rise in use, a hidden cult is infiltrating all levels of society, that sort of thing.

On the other hand, if you want some more old-fashioned adventure, I have two basic suggestions. First, the classic epic-level hook of "We need someone to save existence and you're the only ones who can do it". It doesn't have to be because of their level, they could be the subjects of the prophecy- the (insert number here) who raise a city to greatness and repel the tarrasque during a solar eclipse.

The other solution is simpler: boredom. The city is working great, so great that they're not actually necessary any more. With any luck they'll start seeking adventure once again. Just don't have the place get trashed while they're away, or they'll hate you and never leave again.

There's a subterranean cavern system with a great aboleth city almost directly underneath the city. The aboleths start mind controlling people who go near lakes or whatever bodies of water are connected to this aquifer and create a cult of humans who want to end the world.

I've tried a few of those ( and I'm gonna try the elf lynching) but they have the following.

1. City is cloistered.
2. City is consecrated ground.
3. City is a Zone of truth.
4. All crimes are met with death.
5. Druids have a central granary/grove to constantly create food/water.
6. City guards are constructs.
7. Entire city is rigged to planeshift to positive energy plane incase of emergency, after planeshift over 2000 buried delayed blast fireballs are rigged to detonate.
8. There is an outer wall and and inner wall. between the two is a moat of acid and an antimagic field.
9. all exterior walls are under the effects of a grease/permanancy spell, and are ignited at the first sign of conflict.
10. the firefighting force is a pair of elder water elementals.

there's more but I can't remember all thier bullshit wardings.

Step 1: Kefka
Step 2: Poison
Step 3: ????
Step 4: PROFIT!

Run a one-off game where they play a group of elite mercenaries hired to break into said fortified city.

Either that, or start a new campaign using a different game system. That way, the players won't feel gypped out of thier uber characters. I reccomend RISUS.

>>950925
Have some crazy ass high powered wizard pop up every once in a while and just spam the fuck out of that spell that kills all magical spell effects and magical items all across the city, and then dissapear and do it again. Then start counting up how much gold it takes to re-set the wards, and next thing you know the adventurers are 1000000000 gold in debt and tax-season isn't for another 6 months.

ADVENTURE TIME!

>>950925
>7. Entire city is rigged to planeshift to positive energy plane incase of emergency, after planeshift over 2000 buried delayed blast fireballs are rigged to detonate.

Let them do this. That way, every single commoner can fail their fortitude save and explode in 1 round. They will instantly have no population.

>>950925
Your party really fucking hates you

>>950875
This.

>>950925
That harshness and high degree of law attracts an epic paladin of freedom, who then allies with a number of Revolutionary League cells to bring down the tyranny that has grown rampant in the system.

>>950925

Neutronium Golem dual-wielding Void Dragons says hi.

>>950938
they adventured till they hit epic levels, and then started taking jobs till they had all the money they needed to do this seven times.

the party wizard had done out all the math and come up with several plans to make the city a bastion of perfection.

Did I mention he's been making rings of three wishes with all his spare exp? killing the population is easy. keeping them dead is a bitch.

they literally planned all this to thwart me....it's like I'm the PC now....they tell me what I can and can't do!

neutronium golem

>>950953
Don't be a pussy, DM.

If worse comes to worst, send Ares to fuck up their city.

Overload them with the minutia of running a city.

>>950937
If you don't get my meaning right here, then you need to read up about the positive energy plane. In it, you gain HP each round, etc. This HP can go over your max HP and, once it does, you must make fortitude saves based on the amount higher than your max HP you have or you explode. Your players obviously overlooked this and, if you're feeling like a giant asshole, basically goad them into going through with this plan. It kills off whatever force attacked them, but 95% or even more of their own population gets killed because of the nature of the positive energy plane.

>>950953
Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

>>950925
Tell them "COMGRATURATIONS U R WON TEH DEE ENDEE, LETS PRAY POKAR INSTAED"

The same thing that happens to every large collection of powerful people in a small space:

Infighting.

Bob the wizard doesn't like the way Jack the fighter smells. Jack doesn't like Bob's high-falutin' language. Fred the cleric doesn't get along well with all the heretics. Jose the thief has been nicking odds and ends from people for months now and they're all pissed about it.

Seriously, unless they start making some epic Diplomacy checks every day- and it's going to take ALL DAY LONG to keep these people happy- it's going to devolve into a huge mess.

BECAUSE THERE'S NO SUCH FUCKING THING AS A MUTINY, AMIRITE? OH NO, THAT WOULD BE TOO FUCKING IMPLAUSIBLE. HOW ABOUT WE TRY AND SEND GODS AND MYTHICAL CREATURES AFTER THE CITY, THAT'S MORE LIKELY THAN A GREEDY MERCENARY GETTING A HUGE EGO.
Seriously, learn to DM.

>>950925
The exess amount of law magic causes the material plane to start to slip into Mechanus, just as a march is about to get underway. Primus is not pleased with this intrusion.

>>950953
Man, I wish I could play with a group of players who atleast had a common goal and worked together.

Bomb idea, planted underneath the village, make it go off and kill the entire village while they try to defuse it, make it a ploy, they go after the fake while the evil force is like "GUESS WHAT BITCH WE TRICKED YOU"

Civil war. As you said, a nest of powerful characters. That doesn't mean they're loyal.

City is summoned to some world trapped in a pocket dimension, hoping to find help from such a powerful organization against some awful invading force. Combine with civil war for laughs.

As the DM I have one final solution.

it won't make me feel like a bitch either.

I'm going to have a god decide that he wants the city as his new domain. it has become such an unparalled beacon of safety and power that he needs it.

what I'm trying to decide is, will they actually ask him to try and take it from them?

and could they win?

>>950971
THE FUCKING THIEF JUST HAD TO BE A MEXICAN, DIDN'T HE? YOU FUCKING RACIST ASSHOLE.

>>950984
I spy with my little eye something Beaner.

>>950847

with all this absolute power, and they have total control over a city, one must remember the 5th of November, it would make an awesome plot!

>>950984
1/10

Just have some consortium of chaotic gods attack these faggos for the absurd shift of balance towards law that their incessant spellfaggotry has caused.

Also, Rule Zero. RULE ZERO.

>>950982

Beings with Divine Rank are very very very very hard to kill.

You could have Pun Pun decide that he likes the place and wants to make it the capital of his new kobold kingdom.

with all that law....they might attract the attention of the emperor....

I think that's what I'll do.

>2. City is consecrated ground.
Scrying + Desecrate.

>3. City is a Zone of truth.
Mind blank. Undead. Etc.

>4. All crimes are met with death.
Someone publically important commits a petty crime. PCs are now forced with executing a public official and face rioting on the streets or go against their laws and face political disapproval from their allies.

>5. Druids have a central granary/grove to constantly create food/water.
Blight, fire, etc.

>6. City guards are constructs.
Disintigrate, Invisibility, possibly an AMF.

>7. Entire city is rigged to planeshift to positive energy plane incase of emergency, after planeshift over 2000 buried delayed blast fireballs are rigged to detonate.
AMF, Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, etc. Also even with use of the Gate spell it's pretty much impossible to teleport a city to a positive plane. Maybe all of the inhabitants, but now you just have a lot of innocent people exploding. That's bound to piss off some extraplanar beings.

>8. There is an outer wall and and inner wall. between the two is a moat of acid and an antimagic field.
Bridges, naturally flying monsters, high jump checks, etc.

>9. all exterior walls are under the effects of a grease/permanancy spell, and are ignited at the first sign of conflict.
Dispel Magic.

>10. the firefighting force is a pair of elder water elementals.
Banish the motherfuckers.

Have a much, much stronger kingdom invade (they only have a little city state, right?). The PCs end up being exiled (after a thrilling escape scene), and then they can go on a proper adventure to take back their town.

>>950925
OH GOD
get me that list. i neeeed it. seriously I want to know all the awesomething they put together for the win.

>>951035
it has a population of about 1600 NPCs....all with class levels.

>>950925
4. All crimes are met with death.
Wait, what?

What about the poor of the city? The homeless, vagrants? People who on occasion steal to feed themselves?

Man, this city is asking for a revolution. I can see the outside world perceiving the city as being full of cowards who have given up personal liberty for safety under the watchful eyes of a group of tyrants.

Also, the positive energy plane makes people explode by overloading them on temporary hit points, so that failsafe will kill everyone.

>>951011

The alphornmancer should still work:

>1. City is cloistered.
If there's no big giant dome, then no problem, because everybody will still be able to hear the music through the air. Even if there is a giant dome over the city, it's still doable. You see, you can still make Listen checks from the other side of a very thick stone or iron wall, even though it takes a massive penalty. That means that there's still a tiny chance that the somebody will be able to hear bardic music from the other side of a wall. However, Subsonics makes it so that no hearing is required, so the bardic music will be able to affect everyone inside the walls.

>4. All crimes are met with death.
I guess all of the citizens will be considered criminals by the players once they're fanatic.

>5. Druids have a central granary/grove to constantly create food/water.
The druids will go fanatic too.

>6. City guards are constructs.
These constructs will be the only ones unaffected by the music, but they've got an entire city against them.

>7. Entire city is rigged to planeshift to positive energy plane incase of emergency, after planeshift over 2000 buried delayed blast fireballs are rigged to detonate.
There goes the fanatic population.

>8. There is an outer wall and and inner wall. between the two is a moat of acid and an antimagic field.
Once again, irrelevant if it's not a domed city. Even if it is, Subsonics will make the bardic music go straight through the walls. Diplomacy through Perform checks is an extraordinary ability, so the antimagic field will be irrelevant.

>9. all exterior walls are under the effects of a grease/permanancy spell, and are ignited at the first sign of conflict.
No need, the fanatics are already inside the city.

>10. the firefighting force is a pair of elder water elementals.
Elementals are not immune to mind-affecting effects, so they'll go fanatic.

Just throw an epic character against them. If you're willing to so really stupid shit, use epic spells. If you jury rig it just right, you can either cast a mass disjunction or the vengeful gaze of god. It'll probably kill your high level npc, but who cares? and then the army and pillage the remains.

If you're looking to have someone infiltrate, an artificer with nondetection/misdirection and nystul's magic aura on him can do great things. Mostly, he will get shit load of craft exp by absorbing the magical wards around the city.

>>951042
they only switch planes for 3 rounds, just long enough for the boom to go off.

>>951040
So? If they're the most powerful force in the universe, you obviously need something from outside, which means fighting gods.

It seems to me, though, that if any half-dozen yahoos can build a gym and train up an entire town to heroic levels, that well-established kingdoms could have done the same.

don'tt they get saving throws vs the horn?

>>951056
Nope. Best part about it, aside from the Touhou pictures it seems to draw out.

The Judeo-Christian god somehow gets displeased.

>>951054
he mentioned that they weren't yahoos....they were epic characters, and they had specifically quested for the funds to do all this....seven times over.

>>951060
does it have an expiration date?

I really don't think epic level anything is required.

The only way this could be any more like 1984 is if there was a class of lower class workers more or less thought of as subhuman by the government. And if people mysteriously disappeared and were stricken from all records if they committed any kind of treasonous crime by action, word of mouth, or thought.

Necron tomb deep underneath the city. All this magic has pissed off this Pariah-heavy outpost of the Star Gods.

Sit back and bask in the NERD RAGE

Have an epic necromancer/wizard infect the population with magic AIDS that spreads by touch. The town's clerics/etc can't cure it, but through divination they can find a way for the PCs to go on a crazy adventure through planes with hostile beings that are a challenge for them, eventually leading to the holy grail that cures the disease.

wait...if they have the funds to do this seven times over, what keeps them from abandoning thier fanaticised city and starting a new soundproof one?

>>951068

www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#perform
>The attitude of fanatic is added here. In addition to the obvious effects, any NPC whose attitude is fanatic gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution scores, a +1 morale bonus on Will saves, and a -1 penalty to AC whenever fighting for the character or his or her cause. This attitude will remain for one day plus one day per point of the character’s Charisma bonus, at which point the NPC’s attitude will revert to its original attitude (or indifferent, if no attitude is specified).
>Treat the fanatic attitude as a mind-affecting enchantment effect for purposes of immunity, save bonuses, or being detected by the Sense Motive skill. Since it is nonmagical, it can’t be dispelled; however, any effect that suppresses or counters mind-affecting effects will affect it normally. A fanatic NPC’s attitude can’t be further adjusted by the use of skills.

Assuming the alphornmancer is 20th-level and has 42 Charisma, as was done in the original build, the state of fanaticism should last for exactly 17 days. Even after that, they'll still remain friendly to the alphornmancer.

>>951079
Subsonics doesn't require hearing and shoots straight through walls.

>>951079
Plus, if money is so much of a power in the world, it seems like they'd constantly be besieged by various hostile forces. For instance, a goblin shaman who triggers the city's plane shift and then traps the city's inhabitants in the Positive Plane to explode.

Have the global economy break down and everyone move toward a completely different standard of money.

>>951087
Where is this feat, I have a feeling the silence spell can still shut it down, as it magically shuts down such powers.

I would lol if a Demon Lord ordered a lesser Demon to go trigger the plane shift of the city, then using some kind of epic spell dimensional anchors the populous of the city to the Positive Energy Plane.

Epic Spellcasting Faggotry: It's not just for PCs.

>>951106
Just as planned...

>>951100
Rule zero.

>>951078

Bingo. I was going to say "plague", but think a Nurgle-class plague here. Something bighuge. Sorry for 40k, but it is needed.

There was a short story by Dan Abnett called Pestilence. TL;DR: The plague itself became intelligent, deliberately adapting by infecting individuals attempting to cure it.

>>951100

Silence stops stuff from producing sound.

Subsonics says that people don't need to hear your music to be affected by it.

>>951106
If you're going to do that, why not go the whole way and make the PCs think that the city's gone to the Positive Plane, but it's actually gone to a very powerful NEGATIVE one? Negative levels for the win.

Or maybe you could get a God of Law to "request" that the PCs give it their city and go make some more in His name?

Incidentally, OP, why do you want the PCs to leave the city?

>>951112
That still doesn't tell me where this power is.

well whatever I do I have to do it soon.
the party's wizard is working on creating some half-dragon storm giants so he can abuse the massive strength bonus they get and turn them over to the monk for training after equipping them with gauntlets of ogre strength and that dammned belt.

after that he's going to make sure they take the feats catch missiles, throw anything, weapon proficency improvised weapon, weapon finesse improvised weapon, and 5 levels of drunken master.

when that's done he's going to kill them, and raise them as liches, and keep their phylacteries on his person.

he plans to conquer the world, maybe even reality.

I'd also go with what some of the other posters said here - civil conflict.

Doomsayers appear in the streets, various noble houses arm and mobilize their guard. Everyone's on edge for some reason.

Then, for no reason or reasons unfathomable, it comes apart.

THEN BIGHUGE badguy appears and says "lulz".

>>951118
Song and Silence.

Beshaba, CE Goddess of Misfortune takes a personal interest in the city.

+++

The most trusted NPC of the PCs travels outside the city on a diplomatic mission.

Out of the watchful eye of the Tyrant Council, his NPC get's corrupted/liberated by another NPC who opens his eyes as to just how fucked up the PC's city is.

He then goes back to the city and starts conspiring against the Tyrants.

Revolution, much drama and bloodshed naturally ensue.

>>951119
Jesus Christ, your players are AWESOME.
Let them go with it, as long as they aren't just fucking around and actually have a greater goal you should do your damn job and DM a world-conquest campaign.

>>951117
because the longer I leave them there the more ridiculously powerful they become.
it's going to get to the point where thier minions are epic and they start fucking with fate.

>>951119

If he tries to pull a stunt like that, pull a fucking Babylon 5/Star Trek on them. Vorlons found bad things beyond the known universe, so did the Borg.

Lucifer(or some other high devil) gets a once in a milennium chance to come to the Material Plane, so he decides to bring his demonic hordes and fuck with the PC's for however long they can stay.

couldn't you just have them framed for some crime in their city? or have something malfunction? I mean they have a moat of acid for Christ sake, just have that leak into their water supply or something.

I dont know about you guys but I dont think fucking up thier shit the way you guys are talking about is the way to go here. I mean yes you can go the realism route and just let the city kill itself. I mean I sure as fuck dont like a city that kills for any crime. That said, when someone makes a fortress they want to be attacked. Not from the inside, from the outside.
The idea here isn't to play outside thier rules, but to break into thier castle abiding with what they've set up. what I mean is, sure you can disjunction and what have you on all thier traps and what have yous but that isn't any damned fun.
to give an example, in tf2 when you set up a turret as an eng having spies sap your shit is fucking annoying but on the same note if some ubered heavy kills my shit I am far more ok with it.
Now get us a list of all thier defences and we(I?) will try to break it down for you.
Get a bad guy with a good motivation to fuck thier shit up. Actually it doesn't even need to be a "bad" guy. thier city should piss all sorts of people who aren't nessicarily evil.
Gather up an army and start attacking. make sure plenty of troops fall for thier traps. The worst shit about having a mine field set up is when its all set off and you have to lay it down again. I am willing to bet that it'd take a long time to set up all the delayed fire balls again and certainly not something they could do while fighting an army. Also the delayed fireballs the AMF and the acid all would do shit against flying guys. Make the troops fall for thier traps only once or twice before they get clever. Maybe not at all if the traps are easy enough to tell by a highlevel wizard or if they'd just cause too many problems for you but only if you must.

Subsonics requires you to see the performer in order of the people to know who they are fanatic about. Meaning if you do it blind, the city becomes zealously devoted, but to nothing in particular.

the current goal of the party wizard is the elimination of the norse pantheon, with the assistance of loki. he's mad because thor's priests took an artifact away from him ( thor's hammer ), so his response is to start killing gods and lessening thier believer base, but to do that he first needs a place to found his ultra army.

>>951130

'crons, send in the 'crons.

>>951141
>Subsonics requires you to see the performer

Alphorn, motherfucker, have you heard of it?

Make the very fabric of reality turn BACKWARDS

HAHA! BIZARRO MAGIC! EVERYTHING HAPPENS BACKWARDS! GENIUS!

The solution for your problem is clear.

The Mountain That Rides.

>>951150
No.

All that magic compiled into one area?

An elf gets pissy that you're upsetting the balance of nature, walks in, and casts Weave Mythle, or however it's spelled.

the city is cloistered though, so you can't locate city it.

>>951141
ENEMIES can't determine the source of the effect. Once they're fanatics, they're your allies.

>>951156
Same book you're reading: Song and Silence.

>>951157

Mythal, I believe.

>>951158
Breaks down the walls.

I'm worried about my players killing gods, because if they kill one they become that god/get imbued with the essence. ( A villan attempted it the previous campaign, so the wizard looked up how to do it. )

>>951153

FUCK YEAH!

"Gregor fought with heavy armor and wielded a greatsword in one hand, but Oberyn outfought him with speed and a poisoned spear. After being poisoned and crippled with numerous wounds, Gregor managed to grab hold of Oberyn and pulverize his skull with a punch from his mailed fist."

If worst comes to worst, Deus ex Machina. Let God fuck them over. If they're good, have an evil god raze the city out of spite of its perfection. If they're bad, have a good god sunder the city with divine might.

By the way, The Positive Energy plane makes normal people explode. That's a shitty out on behalf of your party.

>>951158

The Locate City spell will bust down both the outer wall and the inner wall and then go on to decimate the rest of the city. You see, according to the Rules Compendium excerpt covering antimagic, an antimagic field does not block line of effect and only suppresses the portion of a spell's area that overlaps with the antimagic field's area. Since the city's antimagic field is only a ring that surrounds it, the city will not be shielded from the devastation of the Locate City.

Alignment shift from Lawful good to Lawful neutral. Massive one, most of the city. Occurs at the same time someone is put to death for something petty. So suddenly the city is a LN one instead of LG.

If I was the op I'd be terrified of introducing new rules/books.

I'd bet his wizard has a dozen clusterfuck scenarios that he just needs more rulebooks for, that sonofabitch is probably reading this thread laughing all the while, because if he plans like that, you know he's at least been here before.

>>950847
feed your PC's multiple, very angry Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragons?

Read the excerpts from the forthcoming "Elder Evils" book on the D&D website. There are some monsters in there that will be, in effect, like Cthulhu himself descending upon your players' cluster of munchkiness.

Or, as another poster previously stated, have a CE deity(ies) take a personal interest in giving it to your PC's raw, in the ass, without lube.

umm newb here.....how does that locate city spell cause rape? isn't it just a scrying thingus?

>>951176

It's a chain of spontaneous metamagic that turns Locate City into an engine of destruction. Please read it what I wrote again:

>Cast Lesser Globe of Invulnerability so you'll be immune to the havoc you'll be causing. Now grab some ice from a freezer as a move action and spend the entire next round casting Locate City, spontaneously applying Flash Frost, Energy Substitution (electricity), Born of Three Thunders, and Explosive Spell. That'll use up a 4th-level spell slot, but you should have 5 4th-level slots assuming your Charisma is at least 18. Because of Snowcasting, the Locate City spell gets the [cold] subtype. Flash Frost makes it deal 2 cold damage to everyone in the area. Energy Substitution (electricity) changes the spell's subtype to [electricity] and turns the damage into 2 electricity damage. Born of Three Thunders then makes that 1 electricity damage and 1 sonic damage, and forces a Fortitude save against being stunned as well as a Reflex save against being knocked prone. Explosive Spell only affects spells that force a Reflex save, so we've got that covered.

>>951159
I am reading the complete Adventurer.

>>951177

Full thread:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/856019

Locate City(RoD p167)
<Div, V, 1 Round, 10miles/level, Instantaneous>
– Locates the closest community whose
minimum size has been designated by the
caster (as small as a Village or as large as a
Metropolis). The spell does not penetrate
solid objects, so it will not locate underground cities.

>>951179

There are some minor errors in what I had originally written there, mainly regarding spell levels and the illegal use of Enlarge Spell and Widen Spell. I'd edit that into what I wrote just now, if it was possible, but sadly it's not.

OP, two problems:

1: You let the players "Make" 1600 class-level NPCs of varying, nigh epic levels?
You deserve any grief you're getting.

How does one justify this "Training" of class levels for characters without them leaving the city on their own journeys and adventures?
That's fucking dumb, and you should not allow your players to do it.

2: Some of your players are clearly evil. Not just "Oh, I'm nn with ne leanings..." but pure unadultered abusive.
Other heroes from around the globe could easily find out and come seeking to thwart their evil plots. They, being heroes, would request an up-front confrontation with the PCs, accusing them of blasphemies. If the players try to use their populace as a shield against noble adversaries, revolt begins. If they fight the NPCs and show that they are clearly evil, even more revolt.
If the entire populace of 1600 with class levels is in support of the players, regardless of alignment, other forces (Like, hmm, maybe the gods your loki-lover is pissing off?) will take notice.

Learn to GM.

>>951170
I'd also at the same time have most clerics lose all powers and most divine spells to cease functioning in the city. Which opens up new options. Also V as a lesser diety.

>>951182

If you'd like to write an addendum, I can slide it into the thread's HTML manually.

>>951187

Is there any way I can send a .txt file to you? Or maybe through the Meebo chat on your site?

>>951184
it's not a matter of "let them" he made it look like he was going to do something interesting, and followed the rules to the letter. the rest of the party cooperated, and I got caught up in it all. he did it all in small pieces, and then last session he sprang all of at once ( well almost all of it, he has openly made the claim that in two sessions he will be an over deity ) he's been buying materials that are crazy obscure and forcing me to pour over books to find out what he's planning. I swear to god it's like fucking with Moriarty.

So have the wizard die of a sudden heart attack.

No way to bring him back to life as the gods themselves have seen his plans and decreed him too foolhardy and power hungry to let live. Look what happened to Karsus.

If the player gets all BAWWWW BUTTHURT then fuck him. He's obviously looking to break the game, and YOU ARE THE DM. That means you control if your PC's live or die.

Let him take his fucking ball and go play somewhere else.

If this isn't a troll than it's fucking pathetic. You are the DM, for chirssakes! Pull your head out of your ass!

What I would do? Mastermind pc wants to essentially attain godhood? Let him, He ascends, is no longer a pc, asshole power gamer has to re-roll. If his shit is affecting your ability to run a good game, then you have every right to pull some crap like that.

What I don't understand is that you came here to ask for help, right? So why is it that every fucking time someone tries to give you a suggestion you fill up the thread with BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW THIS GUY TRICKED ME BAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW! Jesus, man, either you do something or you let his run rough shod over you, fer fucks sake.

>>951211
Mivehind

The Elder Water Elementals go mad due to something, they split and split again creating an army of water elementals, these then manage to summon more water elementals due to something with the citys layout being a elemental mark of water, etc etc.

Solution: Kill the wizard in his sleep.

And I don't mean his character.

Incidentally, killing people for minor crimes will easily array entire armies of LG/CG/NG NPC's against this munchkin bullshit. You know, epic characters who are also chosen of deities and can call upon favors thereof.

Or you can just have the gods (who have noticed this shit by now, after all) decide to stop this freak before he gets any stronger.

Forgive me if this has already been suggested in this thread, but make the PCs roll up new, monstrous characters that have to now attack the fortress they've built approx. 100 years in the future, after the place has become a hive of scum and villany.

>>951191

Sure; [email protected] , and I'll pop in the chat for a minute.

The positive-energy-plane-explosion idea is great, just because it might teach the players not to be smartarses. It would of course fill the inhabitants of the positive energy plane with a righteous fury at the killing of so many innocents, so they may decide to attack the players and devastate their little town.

>>951223
I conccur with what another fa/tg/uy said before:

BESHABA FOR THE FUCK WIN.

Personal intercession of the Goddess of Doom, Bad Luck, Accidents & Fate could seriously fuck everything down regarding of munchkiny wizards.

Have lawmakers find an old law on the books that means the PCs have done something illegal. Or some other method to get the PCs in trouble with the law. Either they submit and die, or they break the law and therefore the carefully cultivated order of the city crumbles down around them as they become fugitives.

so they have everything and think they've won, then just say ok your town beomes wealthy and advanced and you live a good life leading the city. You die of old age game over

session starts in 3 hours, I'm using the alphorn.

>>951268
Make sure that the person using it is an adorable little girl that wouldn't be a suspect for this tratorism (Or something similar). Have her hide amongst the populance and have them protect her. If the players interrogate the villagers, just have them remain silent as opposed to falling victim to a zone of truth.

>>951254
I like this idea the best.

You settle down, get old and die. Game over, new characters.

the real issue will be keeping them from attempting this again....you should kill that wizard.

Friend and I where talking about this on Aim. He said
" I'd have some Abyssal Lord collect a series of Sphere's of Annihilation, cast Contingency: Defenestration Sphere on each Sphere of Annihilation, permenacy it, and just start dropping them out portals over top of the city "
" Defenestration Sphere contingincied to go off when the sphere comes into contact with any solid object "
"So you have Sphere's of Annihlation pin-balling around the city "

>>951268

An excellent choice, sir. Do try to have them in the city once the alphornmancer starts playing. If you need the updated version of the build, here you go: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14647007

I love how the standard D&D response to whorish cheating is actually just even more whorish cheating.

I like the idea of the game over. Then make them roll new level 1 PCs in their shitbag city and force them to deal with the shit they created.

Enjoy your constant fear of being found guilty of any kind of crime, amirite?

Perhaps there's now Psionic Telepaths or just Sorcerors chilling with Detect Thoughts cast all the time detecting traitorous behavior through their own thoughts and launching secret investigations, arrests, and trials of people who would undermine what the PCs worked so hard to create.

The entire point of the campaign will be evading and tricking the authorities while secretly planning either an escape or revolt against the powers that be.

>>951337
Fight fire with fire, taste of their own medicine, more proverbs I can't remember, etc.

>>951348
and then you close your D&D books and pull out Paranoia.

A political enemy. Lawful Evil to the bone. You can't just kill him, because, although weak, he wields too much power. The people love him (maybe he's a master manipulator) and he always has the law on his side. The players need to find some way to neutralize him, and it needs finesse.

Do they frame him for something, or have him discreetly assassinated? They have to make it very clean, or otherwise they'll get caught.

If they succeed in this, they'll have overcome a great challenge. If they fail, they'll now find themselves criminals in the city they helped create, which is by now approximately the most militarily powerful position on the planet. Do they run from the law (escape the city), or are they arrested and have further adventures from there?

Let's face it: the city, controlled by the players, is now one of the most powerful things in the game world, without bringing in some kind of deus ex machina. The ONLY appropriate challenge for the players is to turn their creation against them. Nothing else is powerful enough to challenge them.

Alternatively, all it takes is an 8th-level character to eradicate the entire city and the immediate vicinity in an 80-mile radius. For this tactic, you just need to be a Human Sorcerer 6 with the Metamagic Specialist variant in exchange for your familiar. Take two flaws so that you can take Arcane Thesis (Locate City), Born of Three Thunders, Energy Substitution (electricity), Explosive Spell, Flash Frost, and Snowcasting your feats. Make sure you have Locate City on your spell list, and pack along several scrolls of Lesser Globe of Invulnerability.

Cast Lesser Globe of Invulnerability from a scroll so you'll be immune to the havoc you'll be causing. Now grab some ice from a freezer as a move action and spend the entire next round casting Locate City, spontaneously applying Flash Frost, Energy Substitution (electricity), Born of Three Thunders, and Explosive Spell in that order. That'll use up a 3rd-level spell slot due to Arcane Thesis, but you should have four 3rd-level spell slots assuming you have 18 Charisma. Because of Snowcasting, the Locate City spell gets the [cold] subtype. Flash Frost makes it deal 2 cold damage to everyone in the area. Energy Substitution (electricity) changes the spell's subtype to [electricity] and turns the damage into 2 electricity damage. Born of Three Thunders then makes that 1 electricity damage and 1 sonic damage, and forces a Fortitude save against being stunned as well as a Reflex save against being knocked prone. Explosive Spell only affects spells that force a Reflex save, so we've got that covered.

>>951359

Locate City affects a 10-mile/level radius, centered on you. At caster level 8th, thanks to Arcane Thesis, that's an 80-mile radius, or a 422,400-foot radius. Anyone who fails both the Fortitude save and the Reflex save, which should each be DC 15 assuming you have 18 Charisma, will be pushed to the nearest edge of the area, taking 1d6 damage for every 10 feet moved. If someone was right in front of the caster and failed both saves, he'd be hurled the full 80 miles and take 42,240d6 damage (average 147,840 damage). That's going to be a very forceful and painful trip indeed. Once you cast it, all structures in a 80-mile radius will be utterly destroyed, and approximately a third the population will fail their saves and violently get killed. Now that I think about it, the ground would take damage and auto-fail its saves as well, so you'd end up with a crater 80 miles deep. Then after a round of being dazed from Born of Three Thunders, you cast it again and again and again, putting up a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability as needed.

That is what you can do at 6th-level. Now we'll need to go Incantatrix for the next 10 levels, but unfortunately, we don't happen to have Iron Will. However, the retraining rules from the Player's Handbook II lets us switch out a feat of our choice for another feat before leveling up, so we're free to switch out Born of Three Thunders for Iron Will right before we take Incantatrix. We'll get BoTT right back since Incantatrix gives you a bonus metamagic feat at 1st-level. Right before hitting Incantatrix 4, we'll switch out Energy Substitution for a non-metamagic feat, and then get the former right back as a bonus feat. Before hitting Incantatrix 7, we'll do the same by switching out Explosive Spell for another non-metamagic feat of our choice, and then get Explosive Spell back as a bonus feat. Once we reach Incantatrix 9, we'll simply take Heighten Spell as our bonus metamagic feat.

>>951361

As a Human Sorcerer 6/Incantatrix 10/Stormcaster 1/Archmage 3, this is what your feat list should look like: Arcane Thesis (Locate City), Born of Three Thunders, Draconic Heritage (any electric), Draconic Power, Energy Substitution (electricity), Explosive Spell, Flash Frost, Greater Spell Focus (divination), Heighten Spell, Iron Will, Skill Focus (spellcraft), Snowcasting, Spell Focus (divination), Spell Focus (any).

A Snowcasted, Flash Frost, Energy Substituted (electricity), Born of Three Thunders, Explosive, Heightened to 9th-level Locate City with Arcane Thesis and Improved Metamagic will take up but a 9th-level spell slot. Fill out your lower level slots with less metamagic'd Locate City spells. Assuming you took Spell Power as your High Arcana three times, you should have a caster level of 28th (20 base + 3 Spell Power + 2 Storm Spell Power + 2 Arcane Thesis + 1 Draconic Power), so your devastating spell will now cover a 280-mile radius. Assuming you have 34 Charisma (18 base + 5 stat boosts + 5 stat tomes + 6 Cloak of Charisma), the Fortitude and Reflex save DCs should each be 34 (10 + 9 spell level + 12 Charisma bonus + 1 Spell Focus + 1 Greater Spell Focus + 1 Draconic Power).

>>951363

1d6 damage per 10 feet moved. If you eat the full 280 miles, that's 147,840d6 (average 517,440 damage). We'll take the average for the purpose of calculations. If you somehow have regeneration 1, you'd fully heal the damage in 862.4 hours or 35.93 days. The tarrasque, with regeneration 40, would heal it in just 21.56 hours.

Arcane Thesis, Flash Frost: Player's Handbook II
Born of Three Thunders, Explosive Spell: Complete Arcane
Snowcasting: Frostburn
Stormcaster: Stormwrack
Draconic Heritage, Draconic Power: Races of the Dragon
Locate City: Races of Destiny
Incantatrix: Player's Guide to Faerun

>>951356
Maybe it could be somebody who's questioning why the PCs have so much influence in the city. A democratic reformer, as it were? Only he's still evil, secretly.

>>951348

I love this idea. So this wizard has created the perfect community? Let's see him live in it as a citizen.

Have the gods drop a fucking flaming mountain onto them. Epic level rock falls everyone dies. Wreck the fucking shithole. Wreck the whole damn world. Your the fucking DM, your the one who does the fucking not the players.

Have a massive asteroid crash into the far side of their world and basically wipe out all life.

Have it happen while the wizard is sleeping.

Here's one. A deliberate conspiracy to undermine the city. Not a single event, but a dedicated and subtle attack to wear down all the levels of defense one by one. A perfect storm of situations that eventually requires the player characters to step in personally.

CIVIL WAR

>>951414

In b4 Dragonlance

Cause a situation where they have to activate the city-teleport to the positive energy plane. They'll be sitting all smug thinking they're safe, but have it planned so that before they teleport the spell has been corrupted by some wizard/demon/whathaveyou so that instead of sending them to the positive energy plane, it starts flinging them to random energy planes. Every 24 hours, the spell reactiviates and you can roll to see which plane the entire city gets flung to next. They'll get to see their city defences up against the most powerful creatures from D&D, which should be cool for them, but also have to figure out how to get the spell to stop casting (maybe the one who corrupted the spell is now bound to stay in the city and the PCs have to hunt them down to cancel it). This might even force them to prepare to evacuate the city at the next "safe" plane they land on, and then either rebuild or try to save and recapture their own city, which would by then be filled with a collection of creatures from around the planes.

>>951501

This was me, I meant "outer planes", not "energy planes". Energy planes are boring.

>>951504
Me again, sorry I actually meant "The Far Realms"

It just occurred to me that the positive energy plane is home to the Ravid. Just have the entire city itself become one fuckhuge animated object of law that hates the people that live inside of it. Have it use every power it has been enchanted with at full bore, amplified by the power of the positive energy plane.

a city full of warriors? have someone infiltrate the compound and kill their boss

>>951545

Snake totally has Arcane Thesis (Polymorph Any Object) so he can extend his PaOs into box form.

Or Spell Thematics (Boxes) and Arcane Thesis (Greater Invisibility).

>>951386

Maybe the reformer is good. The PCs are forced by the righteous democratic will of the populous to release their hold on power.

The Wizards who make all the food and water realise they hold the true power as the means of production and lead a merry revolt against the PCs, using the population, magic guards, wards and elementals against them.

OP had better come back tomorrow and tell us how the alphorn thing went.

PCs: "This is our city! Yay! We fooled the DM!"

DM: "Ok, ok ok. I have something good."

PCs: *laugh* "We're the lords of our town, there's no way..."

DM: "Hello Psion."

PCs: "Psion... wait... what?"

DM: *Epic level psion wastes all power points*

PCs: "..........WTF?"

I agree. use a spion and thrall them.

It was all a dream.

All pc's wake up in their bed with their levels dropped to 1.

Oh, and they still have to take over the fortress.

>>951692
You are a cruel, cruel man.

Convert a group of orcs and goblins to Islam and gift unto them numerous wands of digging. They'll be actively trying to set off the fireballs WHILE the city is still there. And even if they fail, when it comes back they'll keep hurling their fireball-charged goblins against it. Essentially, just a never ending stream of carnage, if you've played Total Annihilation at all and fought a hardcore porcupine in a no-nuke game...yeah, it'll be crazy as shit. Once enough gobs of blood have been spilled, it attracts a bunch of vampires and their undead horde to join the mix, and the insanity starts again. All that noise attracts a group of rampaging giants, the smashed up trail through the forests attracts a load of pissed off elves, the elves being slaughtered attracts the attentions of the drow, the drow's presence attracts a group of dwarves who hook up with drow upon finding out how crazy the laws are, and once the various deities realise how many followers they're losing they all show up themselves to lead a final charge.

The idea is to make so many others die that it doesn't look out of place for a multi-deity alliance to show up on their doorstep. Otherwise they'll probably just bitch at you for outmunchkining through DM powahs.
The added bonus of all this carnage is that you've got a spontaneous army of the dead a local lich lord who just waited all this out can use, bam there is your next campaign, you force them to undo their fuckery ala Dungeon Siege 2.
I'd refrain from epic magic or alphorn right off the bat, it'll just turn it into a pissing contest, where the wizard pulls out a sealed envelope with his backup-backup-backup plan. Make'em use up everything fighting chumps. (Iran's favorite tactic: Charge them until they run out of bullets.)

>>951600
Seriously overestimates the power of democracy when there aren't an equal number of stupids to follow such a pitiful system.

The Gods of Evil see the city as a challenge. Chaotic Evil gods want it destroyed. Neutral Evil gods want it manipulated towards their ends. Lawful Evil gods want it corrupted.

It does seem like the greatest bastion in the prime material plane, ya? So it gets a lot of attention.

I gotta kinda ask why they haven't died of Old Age or Ascended by now. If they stayed mortal, they should be dead of old age well before being able to do this. If the have Ascended to Immortals, then the characters are above all of this crap.

>>951946

You obviously don't know D&D.

Their monopoly over magic pisses off the other surrounding nations and in their anger, they invade.

Let a thousand nations of the Persian Empire descend upon them.
Seriously.
Never-ending hordes of people clusterfucking the city.
NEVER FUCKING ENDING.
Wizards have to run out of spells at some point.

Mugans. Thousands of them.

>>951963
Never mind people; Armies will almost ALWAYS try to negotiate for allies, and in a Fantasy setting that shit can get nasty.

Cult of the dragon with Chromatic Dragons and Dracoliches. Druids who are against the urban monstrosity come with Monstrous Centipedes and other magical beasts. Continue.

How about this then.

The Plane is descending into the depths of the Abyss, ever so slowly. No amount of Wish spells can stop this from happen. Any amount of people that the PCs send off to deal with the problem never return - if there is any solution to it, they must solve it. If they consult the Gods, the Gods say that only they can resolve the situation.

probably been suggested already, but PLAGUE.

>>951963

....Epic win

Have one of the NPCs start preaching that he's seen visions that tell him to overthrow the tyrants. He builds up a large following. Most likely he'll be killed by the PCs for breaking a law. The followers then go into an all out rebellion against the rest of the City. Have one of the crazies banish the water elementals and get rid of the anti-magic field.

And then, right when the city is burning and in all out chaos, the armies of even bigger tyrants start marching to get a piece of the legendary city.

Have some powerful underground race undermine the areas below the city, letting it rest on a few pillars of rock/stone/earth above a huuuuge pit... boom the pillars and have the city crash down to the center of the planet, where it naturally combusts!

a rift opens in the middle of the fortress and a neutronium golem guards the area between the two opened planes. It kills almost everything.

Seriously, instant death penalty would invariably result in their patsies not being loyal at all. A single epic level paladin sweet talks his way in to the city and gets everybody all full of funny little concepts like "fairness" "trial by jury" and "freedom". The constructs and elementals shouldn't be too hard to deal with for an epic paladin and his army of 1600 NPCs with class levels.

>>951963
That's the way to go (and plague). Really, it looks like the GM just doesn't have control over the situation at all.

Let's take a step back, though. There's 1600 people, and since the GM decided that the PCs could do whatever they wanted, they're all heroic-level fighters, mages, and clerics. That's fine, but the PCs did this with nothing but their own money and power. Historically, tradition, leadership, and time can be even more useful for bringing up a nation.

So, while the PCs are cowering in this fascist city, for centuries various kingdoms have been cultivating their own heroes. They've gone out and gotten real experience, whereas the people of the PCs city will panic the moment the walls are breached (and especially after a high-level anti-magic ability prevents their fail safe from going off).

So, that's what I would use: a powerful army with the ability to counter any of the PCs' cheap-ass special abilities. Once they're out of their home, they can have adventures again.

Seriously, the motherfucker's gonna raise half-dragon storm giant liches. He's fucking begging for a crusade of heroic level paladins led by a group of epic paladins and clerics.