Now the players within the setting will be american soldiers embroiled in both the enormous military effort that comprises the defense against the beasts beyond the wall and the civil war that has just began. I plan part way through the game the civil war being interrupted by a large invasion of beasts beyond the wall.

Now... what setting should I run this in? In addition does anyone thing this is a good idea for a setting (if anyone wants to ask questions I could explain details and stuff. i changed a lot of USA culture and things to reflect The Abyss's presence)? (please don't be too harsh, this is my first time coming up with a setting)

Depending on what power levels you want you could run this very easily in Dogs of the Vineyard. Also it actually sounds pretty interesting depending on how you handle the changes in american culture.

bump for help

>>22242095
Seconding DitV.

Or if you want it more combat-heavy and whatnot, and maybe more similar to what the players may have had experience with before, you could use Alternity or NWoD, depending on the feel of the setting and how combat-oriented you want things to be. You'll probably have to homebrew a fair amount for this...

Actually, Deadlands could work if you want it more grounded in the real world and less in fantasy/scifi. Take a look at them all, and see which one would suit your needs best.

>>22242245
Or if the "strange beasts" are more on the eldritch horror side, you could always use Call of Cthulhu........

>>22242245
I was planning on making it more role play oriented than combat oriented. It will consist of politicking in the strange new United States government and its interactions with the Hollow Men (the organization that guards The Abyss and is only partially under the control of the government) and the strange new forms of culture present in this alternative world (it has a lot more european culture than out current united states and is a lot more military oriented due to the creature incursions).

Combat will either consist of fighting large scale battles in the civil war or fighting enormous monstrous creatures that come from The Abyss.

I will look into all three of your suggestions.

(Also, if you do not mind, any opinions on how the setting sounds and if I should change it to something a little bit more established like a standard fantasy.)

>>22242256
Most will be several stories tall and leaning far towards the "eldritch" variety. I want the situation to seem desperate in the same way Eva did. Cities like Chicago (which are actually part on the ground and part vertical. A potion of it is on the ground, the rest burrows into the wall and is thousands of buildings carved into its side or hanging from the stone) and others near the wall are more fortress like and filled to the brim with artillery to try and repel any monsters that come.

The beasts are supposed to be horrifying and nearly able to be fended off when they come in numbers larger than 1-2, and when large scale invasions occur (the players will not know why these happen, I plan on revealing the floor of the Abyss is one enormous super being that births these creatures in clutches and some clutches are larger than others) enormous swatches of the country are devastated (this makes them an easy target to invade, but no one wants to because they know they would then have to handling the creatures themselves).

>>22241995
>His Majesty, President Lincoln.

Either have royalty or not, don't just slap on words that don't go together.

If you want a president in charge then drop "His Majesty". That's for royalty. If you want royalty, then you want Emperor Norton. I guess Lincoln gets to be prime minister then.

>>22242379
I was doing it because His Majesty was originally the suggestion given as to what the president should be called. A lot of people argued for him to have the prefix "His Majesty", while others instead argued for "Mister". In this time line the pro-royalty factions had a bit more sway in the formation of the nation and were able to gain their own title.

It's in american history and fit, so I thought it was fair game. However if it doesn't sound good I can change it.

>>22242417
For reference, John Adams was the one of those who argued for this, mostly due to his infatuation with the French Monarchy system. Most however were too sick of royalty all together and so overruled his.

>>22242379
His Majesty could work if justified in the correct manner. Possibly the office of President could be something much more akin to royalty, in that it could have a distinct change such as the President serving for life or some other matter creating a likeness to royalty.

(I apologize anon, it is your setting. I am simply having ideas.)

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It would make sense for the United States to have suffered a different political fate with a Wild West that is not a vast sea of resources waiting to be industrialized but instead a drain on manpower and a blight for the American Dream of freedom, justice, and wealth.

So in your setting I see a lot of opportunity for a more successful direct European presence in the Americas, an American King, or any number of little twists. Like more reliance on privateers, a fortified settled coast and little West expansion, or maybe even some kind of weird science world monopoly with the remains of the Other Things or some influence The Thing beyond the wall has.

Can you put a year on your setting?

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>>22245049

>>22247831
>>22245049
Yes I can, the setting begging in 1862, and will continue from there as the war heats up. The civil war is still a conflict over slavery, but because of the setting I have added in another part of it. The south believes that they should begin mining into the ward surrounding The Abyss in ernest instead of having the strict regulations there are on it. These regulations are meant to keep the United States safe because it is believed breaking apart the wall in large scale will cause another invasion (as it did after the Chicago vertical expansion). The south is much more powerful because they suddenly have a hugely resource rich source to mine from, and their economy skyrockets instead of taking a dive like in actual history.

The struggle becomes a lot more desperate and I plan for my players to help turn the tide.

As for changes there is a lot more fondness for the royalty, mostly due to French involvement in helping to set up the original structures that guard The Abyss and their maintaining of said guard past the boarder of Canada. The French revolution never got off the ground as Napoleon was High Commander of the forces along the wall for most of his life.

The President (as strippetbot said) does serve for life and is much more like a king than anything else. There is a semi aristocracy based elite formed by those few who were granted permits to mine small portions of the wall before the Great Chicago Incursion.

Technology is also slightly boosted as military development is on a constant upturn in an attempt to find an effective way to stave off the beasts. It is much closer to that of WWI. I would say military technology is ~25 years more advanced than it should be.

>>22249453
Gatling = enabled

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>>22249453
I like it, the french not being total pussies for once. I think this setting could actually go places OP, for a first idea this actually isn't half bad.

>>22249847
Yeah I thought it'd be cool, union soldiers being forced to turn their gatling guns on an eldritch horror as it interrupts the battle of gettysburg. The two opposing forces having to temporarily face down some morris monster before returning to battle.

>>22249884
Thanks, does anyone think I should develop this idea further? Write down the fluff so it can all go into a splat book or something for one of these systems. If people like the idea I'd love for others to use it. I think that'd be awesome.

>>22250061
The wall itself seems unfinished. Is it like a cliff? Is it a smooth uniform surface? Does it offer any clue to its construction?

I like the eldritch Horror alt history of it all. Definitely something to keep working on. Make sure it's not just DitV: Apocalypse. Explore the Lovecraft angle, but avoid falling into a Cthulhutech fetish trap. Find your genre. Maybe think about music in the setting, or clothes. Steal some grainy black and white photographs and fluff it all up a bit. The players won't know what's behind the wall, and it should take them at least a campaign to find out. How to assemble a concept of the character for the way there is what makes a setting.

Things like: Psychology became popular in Europe around that time. With a stronger European influence that fashion could be central to Yankee self image, and maybe something the character sheet could express.

What are the rumors and legends concerning the wall? What does a piss poor dumb as dirt field hand believe is hiding in there?

Are there exploration parties braving the Northern ice or Southern jungles in an attempt to map the wall and maybe find a door or something? Is there mention of the wall in Egyptian writings or ancient Mandarin texts? This IS the age of Pulp explorers.

Is there other supernatural stuff beyond an inexplicable wall and beasties sometimes jumping over it? Magic? Artifacts? Mutations?

>>22250245
I envisioned it as a basically sheer cliff extending up from the earth suddenly into the sky. Landscapes basically stop at its edge as it rises. Occasionally there are ancient worn steps leading up, these seem to be much older than any civilization that has made it to the wall should be. It looks like it was once a uniform surface (as in one solid piece of stone), but after years it slowly broke down and developed cracks and what not. As to its construction an enormous among of research has been put into it, but to no avail. The only clew that they have is the artifact that was found that sparked the Great Chicago Vertical Expansion (it is several disc like stones hat were found actually sealed in a chamber inside the wall that contained no entrances or exits. On the surface is writing that no one has been able to translate, i plan on making it a combination of a few ancient dead languages. Kind of like a base language those evolved from).

And yeah, the whole self image thing and the culture difference (and how the character fits into said estranged culture) should be reflected in the sheet. So far from the systems I have looked at it'll take modification for it to fit my vision of what the setting should be. I think I should either modify and refluff an existing one, or just forgo it all together and make my own.

>>22250442
If I make my own I'll have to create an entire mythos in order to explain away aspects of their culture and have all the technology and media properly defined. The players should be able to be different kinds of soldiers that could be found on either side of the war. Riflemen, Artillery Officer, Cavalry, and such, but it should be kind of like a title gained once certain requirements are met. A character buys skills and traits with XP and then is allowed to gain Rifleman or levels above that and receive benefits, but at the same time could possibly meet the requirements for another title (like Armored Infantry Officer) and receive benefits from that as well. The players should be able to customize themselves a lot, it would make it better.

>>22250400
>>22250400
There is a lot of speculation going around, among high class citizens it is actually believed this is the lost garden of eden and over the years it spoiled into what is seen today. They believe that what comes over are rotten fruit of knowledge, and that it is their duty as humans to tame the land they were once thrown out of.

Among lower class they think it is simply another land that needs to be tamed and contained. They think it is some kind of giant horrendous sea of monsters and jungle and what not.

Among soldiers opinions is split between those two ideas and a smattering of stranger ones like these are spirits of some other god, or maybe god himself.

As for ancient mentions there is legends in ancient Indian culture and Chinese. Southern asia knows about it and has ancient legends in which a kind of "blaze on the horizon" in which a light came from over the horizon and a huge tsunami devastated the coast thousands of years ago. They don't know any more about it beyond that.

There are expeditions heading north and south, and even through the ocean (the wall extended up from the ocean floor in the pacific) to try and find artifacts like the one if chicago. These supply strange ancient technology (maybe, not sure about ancient tech) and strange knowledge. If I include magic it will not be of the "I cast fireball" variety. Instead I want it to be the "I sit in a room and meditate for three hours to summon something from another dimension". Magic would not be a combat thing, instead it is difficult and ritual based.

>>22250562
Eh, I'm not sure if I'm crazy about the whole religious side of it. I mean it would fit into early US culture, but.... I don't know. This is starting to sound a tad like Evangelion set in the Civil War. (which actually now that I think about it if done right could be kinda cool)

>>22250527
Never make your own system. Refluffing and balancing an existing one is work enough, trust me.

Don't do d20, because you have guns and those don't work with levels and hit dice. Don't do classes, it is artificial and oversimplifies your setting.

I'm all for point buy chargen and advancement. Although BRP's raise what you used approach is great, too.

All modern generic systems use flaws or aspects with plot points or something else, and I like this trend. It helps newcomers to express their character and gives experienced players points to annoy the GM with. You find this in Fate, Cortex, Cinematic Unisystem, and others.

Look at DRYH. You don't have to play crazy people doing mad things, but the approach to chargen is great, and the Dominating pool resolution is mandatory reading for any GM.

I'm sure you are experienced with Dogs in the Vineyard? If not drop everything and read that first!

And finally ORE does great crunch. At least read Monsters and Other Childish Things to get a quick look at it. If you can condense combat crunch down to this, you are sure to earn a place at Gygax's side in roleplaying heaven.

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>>22250834
Oh god that is a lot of systems! I'll try to look into as many as possible and refluff one of them then I find that works. This is gonna take a lot of work on my part, but I think I'm ready to give it a go!

Also, Here is picture for the land The Abyss covers. I'm gonna make another picture of the united states making it more defined and showing where new cities have risen and the larger forts along the wall (the forts themselves are nearly cities, and the wall is several thousand feet thick).

>>22250920
Oh I was thinking about maybe extending it into the north so it goes into the arctic circle, completely cover alaska, and has a boarder in Russia.

>>22250920
If I were you, I'd leave it where it is. Better not have a part of the wall anywhere on eurasia. It's help with the whole "mysterious" aspect because it makes it so no one has been able to study the wall.

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>>22250920
Use this map I stole somewhere.
It just looks more 1860s.

Are there any Native Americans left? How did their spirituality and relationship with the land get affected by The Abyss? Perhaps there are plants or certain animal organs that, when ingested, allow shamans to experience otherworldly visions or to commune with the intelligence governing The Abyss. Maybe as a rite of passage a young tribesman might be sent out to kill or tame one of the smaller, more common entities that come through the cracks. Perhaps somewhere a chieftain has managed to tame one of the bigger creatures and has started raiding settlements. You might also consider whether there are humans indigenous to The Abyss and, if so, how their culture and physiology may have evolved to cope.

>>22251135
If I am to actually make this look good and put it together into a splat book I will use a better map. I merely did a quick one to get the general point across. Thank you for the map, but I would rather use one that centers around the pacific ocean so that I do not have to cut the area in two.

Does anyone have opinion on the entire "lost eden" aspect of american culture that is interjected. (This idea is of course completely incorrect as to what is really happening).

>>22251155
As of the moment I do not believe humans should be indigenous to the Abyss, at least now how I am currently structuring what is inside (at least not humans we can understand as part of our species). However I love the idea of the native americans. I had not allotted them a large amount of thought and instead wanted to have them have an enormous amount of legends pertaining to the abyss and visions as you mentioned, however the idea of taming the beasts is excellent!

They could have taught the americans the strange form of "magic" which once taken in by american culture evolved from the primitive shamanism. Again however, magic should not be of the "I cast fireball" variety and the difficult ritual type.

Possibly the native americans lead an offensive against the united states in the past and won their own strange quasi-independence or something of that nature in a separate nation or possibly state. I will have to think that over as to how it should be handled.

>>22251337

I believe you need a strong theme of prophecy.
Your wall is basically Jules Verne's underworld or Lovecraft's R'lyeh (which you conveniently covered in your wall map) put where the Wild West should be. People are going to have a pressing question why that is. You need to use that tension as a plot device. Or the entire thing seems pointless.

You have already anchored it in Chinese and Indian history. There could be some prophecy right there. 2 sources: 2 perspectives, cryptically predicting specifics that may or may not allure to the same future incidents.

Now you have shamans who actively communicate with The Others. They don't get an explanation, but I'm sure they have some empathic idea what might be going on. And with centuries of that comes prophecy, only this one's true.

Ultimately you are heading for a cataclysmic event. It will either be the apocalypse, or a heroic, maybe even messianic tale of how The Other was identified and overcome.

This can take centuries, but it is the underlying plot structure and you will disappoint your players if it turns out to be something else.

>>22251337

>>22251155 here.

In addition, you could also play around with voodoo and any other forms of mysticism that entered America as a result of the slave trade and incorporate The Abyss into that. Witch doctors communicating with other-dimensional entities and that sort of thing.

Human sacrifice would also have been a regular ritual of tribes near the wall. Think especially of the Mayan types in Brazil. Perhaps you could cut their pyramids in half: instead of pyramids they could be steps leading up to a sacrificial altar at the top of the Wall from which offerings are thrown down to appease their "gods".

>>22251525
>steps leading up to a sacrificial altar at the top of the Wall
Nice!
Doesn't have to be the top though. I like the idea that the top is off limits to any sane non suicidal person, even if there are steps.

And now I realize I just called a high priest who pierces his dong to anoint his blade that he uses to cut the beating hearts out of living sacrifices sane. But still, an altar 100 feet up the wall would do imo.

>>22251606

Perhaps then, an altar outside one of the cracks. A victim is tied there before sunset to appease the monsters that come out at nightfall instead of having them venture away from the Wall into the villages for food.

>>22251677
I thought monster excursions were rare.

They come when there AREN'T enough sacrifices.

(I put on a name so it's easier to identify my posts in the thread)

>>22251696
Singular or pairs monsters are common, and might appear on a monthly basis. Large scale invasions, dozen or hundreds of the beasts, are events that happen once a decade.

>>22251515
there is going to be a large movement as to discover exactly why the wall is there and where it came from. However while that is occurring I was planning on using the civil war to be a backdrop to explore the strange happenings of the wall and what not. As for "the others" I was planning on making them the possibly the "lost eden" variety in which they are humans who never ate of the tree of knowledge and have gone down a very different path. However there is no "god" in this setting, instead this is where the Christian mythos originated from.

Ultimately there will be an event this is leading towards, the expedition into The Abyss and the discovery of what is one the other side. This will trigger an invasion to end all invasion, hundred of thousands of beasts coming and a race against time to attempt to stem the flow and ultimately solve the string of strange ancient events that lead up to the wall's creation.

>>22251525
I never thought the creatures on the other side to be "other worldly" and I kinda shy away from the idea of making them from another dimension. I want them to be rooted in religions around the world, different ones using this as a staging point to create their faiths... I don't know... it's still all concept.

>>22251696
Hmm, picture it more like this:

>some dude gets unlucky, chosen for sacrifice
>tied to altar, crazy ritual happens, priest dances around
>Nightfall. Some time in the night a wormlike maw or a tentacle extends through the opening and spirits the poor guy away
>the gods have been appeased, the darkness is lifted, the people survive to farm their lands one more day

You could also mess about with weapons, maybe warriors could wield eldritch abomination tentacle whips or Macuahuitls studded with strange alien fangs or glowy unearthly crystals (woo demonic power-macuahuitls!)

>>22251525
Instead of a alter on top of the wall I think it would be more realistic to put it instead inside of one of the cracks on its surface. The wall is anywhere from .7-1.5 miles in height depending how far above sea level the area around it is. It would be difficult for an ancient culture to build a structure that would allow it to get up there. The few elevators the united states has are feats of engineering.

>>22251849
Weapons made from dead beasts from the other side? I like the idea immensely. This in addition to the few that tame things that come from the other side could together make up a reason why Native Americans and other primitive cultures managed to actually fend off those of superior technology. Brazil could have european settlements on the coast, but the rest still be a wild ancient empire that worships the beasts beyond the wall. Though, I still want this to remain focused on the United States, but enough should be provided about the rest of the world to create a working tapestry for others (if they so choose) to steal this idea and run with it as their own.

>>22251606
Yeah, I enjoy the idea as well that the top is dangerous as fuck unless you're in one of the forts OP mentioned. Which brings that up, what exactly are these forts like? Are they just military camps with lots of artillery pointed into the Abyss? Or could it be something like a city up there?

What's Canada like? you mentioned napoleon was stationed on the wall, so is upper/lower canada united under british rule or divided under british/french rule, completely french, or did they throw their lots in with america?

>>22251920
Middle America was essential in American politics and economy until Teddy's Big Stick gunboat marginalized them for a century in reactionary puppet regimes held in power with money and weapons from outside. This might be different now. It certainly wasn't the case in the 1860s.

As for weapons from Other Things... I really think you should consider some exotic and powerful effect something made from them has. An effect that can be instrumentalized economically. Maybe it gets people high. But not just high, they see Jesus. And they see something dark below. Something big and dark. Get the cultural spread right and you have the setup for the next Opium Wars. Or a considerable bargaining chip for the young nation. Or a plot device along the lines of Dune's Navigator caste that gains enlightenment and power through endemic drug use.

>>22252159
Canada is split between French and British. Northern Canada is under control of Britain and a part of the glorious British Empire (they kept their empire in an attempt to consolidate power for an eventually united offensive from they wall they believe is coming. India is one of these, so they are constantly searching for secrets there as to the Wall's origin). Southern Canada is controlled by the French, and has ties with the United States as allies during the last great incursion. Napoleon actually disappeared during said infusion, vowing he would stop what ever was happening. He lead a combined French and American force into the interior of The Abyss. The creatures did stop coming, but no one ever saw any individual of the force return.

I am also planning on adding an independent Native American nation somewhere in here. i am unsure where at the moment.

>>22252201
Would you mind explaining further your first statement? I am very interested but unsure of what implications you are drawing from this idea.

As for the application of the Other Things. Possibly they are instrumental in doing any of the magic in the setting, the piece of their body being the reagents required to do any forms of "far seeing" as the shamans of the Native American did to communicate, or to perform the more recent "summonings" that have been developed in america.

>>22251920
I agree. It also gives your players more options during character creation, perhaps choosing to be a Native mercenary or conscript instead of a European type. Perhaps even allow the Shaman class the option of taming a companion once their "spirituality" reaches a certain level.

As for the north: play about with the Northern Lights and Inuit beliefs about them: perhaps they show unsettling visions of the madness beyond the Wall, perhaps it's an aetheric denizen venturing outside of the Wall at night to feed, maybe it's a rift connected to The Abyss - a few intrepid explorers may have flown through in hot air balloons never to return, or their tattered balloons fall to the Earth and are used by the natives to make tents.

Fishermen may sometimes pull up unusual looking fish creatures, or maybe if they're unlucky an appendage reaches out of the fishing hole and drags them underwater (I like this sinister reversal).

>>22252377
I like the idea of the northern most extents of the wall! Also as per the intrepid explores, originally I was planning for there to have been a few expeditions, the government or private individuals occasionally funding one. However despite all of this none have returned except in the form of the occasional tattered remain of gear or mangled limb being found in the stomach of or hanging off the spines of the of the beasts coming over the wall.

Also the fishing thing, that is an awesome idea! I was already planning on the other side of the wall, that which just jettisons from the ocean, to have strange sea monsters within the water. The legends of giant beasts deep within the ocean in this setting are completely true. Sea serpents and tentacles monsters are in the water, especially near the wall itself. Because no one has the resources to fight a war against them they have established a large population in the eastern pacific and threaten areas like the east coast of China and Japan when they eventually come ashore.

>>22252357
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_Policy

Before 1900 there was no more law and order above the Mexican-American border than below it. Plantations and mines in South and Middle America were a big deal in the world economy.

The construction of the Panama Canal for example began in the 1880s. It was one of the largest engineering endeavors ever attempted. They were building world wonders down there.

And with the young US more focused on itself they could thrive to unfamiliar cultural and monetary wealth.

What about Oz?

The wall runs right through Australia and the British have been there for over 100 years...

>>22252570
>a land plagued by nightmarish creatures

It stays the same.

>>22252591
The area could have had horrible creatures, and being sent their as a prisoner could be a true death sentence. Once you're sent there chances are horrible beasts will eat you alive if you do not know how to survive like the natives.

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>>22252591
>Oh no! It has her head!

>>22252620
Within a few generations the immigrant population starts killing these creatures and STICKING 'EM ON THE BARBIE.

>>22252496
As per enormous engineering endeavors the United States is involved in those, but instead of them being south of the boarder they all pertain to the wall. Because the wall is a mile high several permanent enormous elevators have been built to be able to get on top. Then a railroad system has been built on top to transport supplies between the dozens forts atop the wall. These forts themselves are enormous shield towns that are completely devoted to defense, able to withstand multiple story tall abominations occasionally coming to rip them a new one.

However I see what your mean, but the monetary wealth is partially not there to begin with without a wild west full of resources and partially spent on the enormous military endeavor protecting the United States from The Abyss.

So... in a sense I'm just really not sure.

Build a railroad along the wall from Alaska to Japan and Australia. Instant Silk Road.

>>22252570
Boomerangs thrown from the top of the Wall never come back.

Wall Street: an area of New Amsterdam/New York home to a multitude of businesses and research institutes relating to the Wall and what lies beyond.

>>22252781
It's funny you should mention that! There is a railroad heading from the united states all the way to Japan. There are far fewer forts as you leave the contents, and so it causes the trains to be rather dangerous and break downs to be catastrophic, but there are trade routes running from the unites states up through the arctic circle down to Japan.

If the trains break down the forts along the ocean have no way to gather food beyond sparse fishing that can be done in the water (which is more than a mile and a half sheer drop downwards). This causes some to turn to eating the beasts themselves, which causes all kinds of horrible affects, while others merely throw themselves off the side to a quick death rather than a slow starvation. Beasts will occasionally raid trains in order to get food from the cargo, this is why each train is armored and has at least two cars with artillery. As a train goes by, if it sees a beast, it will often takes shots at it in an attempt to kill the beast. It will tell the first where they saw it so groups can be sent out to gather the corpse for study and eventually selling to the booming magic market in the USA.

Australia is still a untamed wile land-ish area and going south isn't an option due to that empire in Brazil that is mucking about, but the trade lines are open!

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>>22252951
Wimps on the wall?

IMPOSSIBLE!

To address the lack of a WIld West, maybe the wall itself is a source of magic and resources that both makes the wallforts possible, and speeds up technological and magicla research within the United States. Perhaps the South is less focused on cotton, and more on major food production which both weakens Britain, and strengthens the South during the Civil War, making it vital during the final invasion. Ironically, without Britain's aid during the civil war due to it's lack of a reliance on Southern cotton, the South is better equipped to fight on the mainland, and just as vulnerable to a Northern blockade.

Also, depending on how much magic exists in your world, and whether or not there are dedicated magic users, perhaps being raised on or near the Wall strengthens magic users and their powers.

>>22253092
I knew this was going to eventually bring up the Night Watch! However, this brings up an interesting point. What is the structure of the organization that defends the wall? OP said it is only partially in control of the government, did us used to be in control? Have the always been separate? Could they have evolved out of some native american thing?

>>22253166
I was planning on their not to be a dedicated magic user, and instead every individual has the capacity to gain magic rituals given they meet a certain requirement in terms of stats and can purchased the implements required.

These spalls could do things such as:
Summon a small Other from beyond the wall.
Change lead into gold
Bring to life a statue and imbue it with power
Create small runes that are forever hot to the point of boiling water.

Magic will be a support thing that will fuel industry, not something that is on the forefront of combat.

In addition the wall itself will be a source of oddities and such. The civil war is being fought partially about slaves, and partially over the right to mine within the wall itself. The government forbid it after it mining within the wall in Chicago caused the last great incursion from The Others. While there are still things being dug up near the wall and being pried off of areas that are wearing down naturally, there is no mining of the actually interior of the structure occurring for the past 20-30 years.

Also I like the ideas on changes in the south! Food is a big deal because the wall requires enormous amounts of individuals to man it, often in areas where good can't be grown, and so this means there needs to be an influx of food heading up and down the wall to keep these people fed (as I said in my other post)

>>22253333
Classic conundrum.

>We need to mine the wall and discover all the secrets it holds to be able to find what lies beyond.

>But that will destroy the wall and all that protects us from the other side.

>But if we wait it will spill out and nobody knows if anything on the other side is even held back by it.

We know it will get worse, but it could get much worse. We can ignore it and perish eventually or do something about it and hasten our own demise.

>>22253478
Yes, that's what I was going for! That's part of the struggle with the whole:

"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go." - Eliot, T. S.

as a central theme with which the conflict is centered around.

I'm really surprised you guys actually like the setting, this was my first setting idea. I was really worried I was going to go down in a storm of being called a faggot.

>>22253759
There is still one central kink for me. A wall is something man made, not something created by ancient horrors.

You can bury it deep in secret lore, but the only explanation I can come up with is that man DID create it. In an age before history. Of course this construction would have to be magical, and conducted under great sacrifice. With a skill far beyond human understanding for Millenia.

>>22253759
No need to be worried, /tg/ is normally kind to new kids. Besides, this is a fairly unique and interesting idea. I'd love to play a campaign in this setting.

>>22253893
That will be a central conundrum, the attempt tp discover what exactly created the wall, because fit is obvious that this is not simply a natural structure. The disks found in the sealed chamber near Chicago (the same ones I mentioned earlier, whose uncovering caused one of the great incursions) are one of the few clues as to who.

At the moment I am unsure of who exactly I will make the creator. Angles (and make the Lost Eden believers correct), an ancient human society that went too far (in the days where magic was possible and the knowledge was lost after the creation), or possibly something even stranger (the creatures inside the wall that became what they are today, sealing themselves away to protect a fledgling world).

>>22253981
The land beyond is basically Madagascar. It became isolated in an earlier evolutionary development stage and things have progressed differently there. With some mighty 'evil' it may well be that survival of the fittest meant only killing machines even stand a chance, and the best of those is what interbreeds for new generations.

The ancient protective measure of sealing off whatever lies beyond has held it away from mankind for millions of years. But it has also allowed it to breed a continent of highly evolved survivors that kill every day. And of course whatever lies at the heart of The Other has seeped into their gene pool.

>>22253981

Guys...
Guys...

What if the Wall was built to keep humans OUT rather than to keep the creatures in?

>>22254134
I was planning on making the wall a recent development, so that it could be in the legends of ancient India and southern Asia. In addition if it was millions of years old, without the Pacific Ocean, the world's climate would be vastly different. The only way I could think to justify the world not being immensely different was make the wall only a few thousand years old. Unless the inside also has a ocean and it is just separated from the outside by the wall.

I don't know, I like your idea, but I want to endeavor to... I don't know, maintain a level of sense scientifically despite the magic and what not.

>>22254268
Give this man a medal! That's a great idea, and would be amazing to work into the mythos. Instead of a "Lost Eden" it could be a "New Eden". Some kind of final attempt to right the wrong of the world or something similar.

>>22254287
Oh come on, that is scientific to the bone (except for the evil and the wall itself). maybe you should google up Madagascar's evolutionary biology some time.

I had assumed that the geology would be basically the same as without the wall, so yes, oceans are cut by the wall. But it's your world.

Are you heading more in a 'other dimension crashed into California in 1000 BC' direction, where the other side is truly alien, not just in biology?

>>22254337
You could also work it into the setting thematically. Maybe the intelligence in The Abyss foresaw that mankind would grow to conquer the land with industry and violence and sought to seal itself off. The creatures are spawned as weapons to fight the humans off and incursions happen because humanity is encroaching closer to the Wall, sort of like a malevolent Gaia. It's a nice little dichotomy of twisted nature vs. mass industry, but there's always the danger of falling into the trap of "humans are really evil and the hellbeasts are just misunderstood a bloo bloo!"

If you go this route, do so with caution. It has the potential to jibe well with the Eden angle though.

>>22254287
>There is a mile high wall around the Pacific and the Americas, dissecting the equatorial jet and the climate zones from continental across the equator to polar.
>Those ocean currents I didn't consider earlier make it seem unscientific (in my magical realm). But if it's only been a few thousand years it'll be okay, I'm sure.

>>22254525
No, I wasn't arguing against the whole different evolution inside the wall. That was a great idea! The part I was concerned of was how, if the inside didn't have water and instead vast tracks of land or some other such, the sudden lack of water would effect Earth's ecosystems. I'm not a biologist so I am bit uneducated on how this would turn out. I'll defer to your greater knowledge. However the other is meant to be extremely alien, it's supposed to dive fairly far horrible monstrous creatures. I was planning on making them middy mythical, and use their body parts as the primary regents for magic in the setting (to explain why magic was only developed in western culture after North America was settled).

Honestly I just have to think about it, your idea is great, but I don't know how I want to treat what is inside the wall yet.

>>22254668
I like the idea of it sealing itself off to protect itself, and maybe in ancient times kicking out humans from its land because it foresaw our eventual development (but did not want to destroy us). This could be where the entire biblical mythos came from, this events happens millions of years in the past before the wall went up.

However I do not want to make either humans or the beasts evil. It should all be shades of grey, morality is never good and evil, it's all a matter of perspectives.

>>22254722
Yeah, I am realizing how silly it sounds now. I am unsure of how to handle it or simply put it all as a write off. I'll have to consider exactly how it all is treated... I mean, the ecosystem would probably simply crash the moment this happened.

I'm considering just treating the entire thing as a write off instead of figuring out how to restructure the entire earth ecology.

>>22254722
It's be kind of silly worrying about that at this point. The entire setting screams of scientific inaccuracy. I say be damned those scientists!

(or maybe this could too be integrated in, people as they discover how nature works are confused as to why it all functions as if the wall does not exist)

>>22254829
Well, ask 5 scientists how the climate will be affected by something like the gulf stream collapsing, and you'll get 8 answers.

I say ignore the implication and do whatever you want.
Leave the climate as is.
Lampshade it with a few smaller changes to underline your fluff (Canada is REALLY cold).
Shrink the wall to include just the Rockies.
I don't think this should give you a headache.

>>22254933
Thanks, I think I might shrink it a tad, so it doesn't touch australia but still extends a fair amount into the pacific ocean (to keep the trade route with Japan, and the huge empire in Brazil and stuff).

This thread has been amazingly helpful! I think I'll spend a few days doing some more detailed write ups of the setting then present it again on here to see how people like it. You guys are awesome, this is why I love /tg/.

>>22254993
Every other new moon we manage to leave 40k and 4e be for a while. I'm pleasantly surprised myself.

Full disclosure: I kicked you along there for a while.
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>>22255016
Nah, I think you guys are great. You've helped me develop this setting, and now that I have the ideas hammered out I shall put them all onto paper. You know, give back to the community? You guys deserve the best setting possible. I know this won't be the best, but I hope it will be at least interesting enough to do some good.

Now all it needs is a unified name. What could this thing be called? "The Abyss" sounds too grim dark for my taste. Maybe something like "Flags of our Fathers"? What do you all think?

>>22255089
Oh, well... that's ok then. Still, someone interested, right? I'll try and develop this into a setting.

>>22255143
Hey, I had fun. And you have a solid idea for a setting.

Shadow of the Wall
Days of Valor
Beyond Grace

Be sure to make a 1d4chan page, at least with a link to the archive of this thread.

>>22255089
Fuller disclosure: As did I.
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>>22254668

I had tremendous fun batting ideas around though, I haven't really contributed that much to this type of thread before. Definitely stick it on 1d4chan, I'll be interested to see how it develops! And post a pdf when you're done!

>>22255307
In a few minutes you should be able to vote it up.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/22241995/

>>22255471
Thanks, and at least a few people besides you replied.

>>22256123
>a few people
HEY!

I'm late to the party but am going to write my opinions anyway.

First off you should definitely check NEMESIS for a system to use. It takes ORE mechanics and adapts them to Call of Cthulu style games, plus it adds Unknown Armies madness meters to flesh out the role playing portion beyond "lose 20 SAN from squid thing". Seems perfect for what your going for, especially if you take the company rules from REIGN to represent the armies and groups that your players are part of.

http://www.arcdream.com/pdf/Nemesis.pdf

>>22259293

The idea for a setting seems great in general, but you may want to consider further back in history than just 1862. Colonization and European politics would be greatly affected by the appearance of this wall, not to mention its huge implications for Indonesian and East Asian trade. The map in >>22250920 puts the wall over halfway through the pacific, well within the limit of sailors going back to ancient times. That doesn't mean they would regularly conduct trips there, but it at least should have been known of well before European explorers got to the Americas. Of course you could push if further east without changing your basic concept and making the worldbuilding easier on yourself. I would suggest back past the International Date Line or even to Hawaii if you want to go that route. Polynesians would go that far, but few others. Furthermore, Spain would be much more powerful in european politics in the long term without Aztec and Incan silver and gold depleting its economy. This may mean that Europe is more protestant, as the Habsburgs wouldn't have had access to that wealth to finance Catholic armies, but Spain itself is probably more influential in the current era without their industries being made unprofitable by inflation. Hell, it may have even stayed united with Portugal, since it wouldn't have overstretched for so long. Also, Brazil is likely Spanish instead of Portuguese, as the Spanish would have fought to have for the 100 leagues bull when they found out there was less land overall, but that's up to you.

Great Idea, I'll keep and eye out for anything else you post.

>>22259302
The Wall in the Pacific might explain why people though the Earth was flat. It was meant to stop them sailing off the edge. It was only until America was colonised that people realised it was encircling something.

Bump for great glory!

So in ASoIaF terms the Wall is the Wall, and the Abyss is the North. When designing this setting for your players don't be afraid to steal all kinds of inspiration from that setting.

>>22264737
We already ruled out people living on the other side.

More like The Blight from WoT.

>>22256123
You got 11 votes in a night. That's excellent.

>>22262637

But seafaring made thinking the world was flat impossible, the horizon directly contradicts that idea.

File: 1356725306766.png-(90 KB, 318x235, Mah N.png)

>>22264836
Mentions WoT
pic related
Anyways, the point still stands. Still the inspiration and ideas from those to help improve the setting.

>>22266939
Next volume drops next month, right?

>>22251515
Randland has many flaws, but the way it deals with prophecy is sublime. There's 5 or 6 different detailed prophecies and they all seem to contradict one another, play to the expectations of the people who keep them, and all come true.

>>22259302
At the moment I am planning for something else to have weakened Spain. A united Spain-Portugal have been having a decades long war of attrition in Brazil. They have been attempting to permeate the Brazilian empire in search of riches , but each time repelled by the combined might of beasts and natives. they much less involved in wall politics as they are trying to secure their own section to research and defend.

Also as for catholic I plan on there being a large religious resurgence as a result to the walls study.

>>22270182

So wait, do they still have a continental colony in the Americas? Or did they never get a real colony ever get started there, as result of wall creatures? If it's the latter, how did a North American Colony get established? Or do you mean they were fighting a colonial insurgency for decades, as in people rather than wall creatures? Either one could have weakened them, but I'm having trouble understanding what you're going for.

>>22270584
Unfortunately I'm on a phone so it's difficult to write out a full explanation. They did have colonies, but were eventually abandoned or sold to the US as the cost did not outweigh the reward (fighting both locales and wall beasts. This was before European magic and the beast part market came into existence). Their current conflict is in South America vs the natives who can tame wall beasts (they're going after legends of great riches on beast parts as there is a huge market for them since Europeans developed magic 40 years ago)

>>22271037

I don't know, it seems inconsistent that northern colonies would be profitable and southern colonies would not. Most colonies made little profit for their governments in reality anyway and nations still kept them going for prestige if nothing else. The colonies could have been focused on the coastal areas away from the wall (based on the map given in >>22250920 at least Cuba should be full of wallbeasts) but some sort of plantation system could have been set up. The area is very conductive to tropical cash crops, plus they could grow some kind of monstrous plant from the wall. It wouldn't be any more dangerous than the East Coast, if we're just going by distance. This would still leave the interior full of natives, or at least the natives who survived European plagues, who are fighting the colonists as you say, but the colonies themselves, if they ever get up and running, are not going to be abandoned or sold. Sunk cost fallacy and all that. Maybe they could win their independence by fighting for it, a post-colonial empire that rivals the US if you don't want a major European presence, but if the North can be safely colonized, the south should be alike.

>>22271365
Thank you. I do not want the Spanish to have a large presence in North America (the USA, French, British, and independent Native American Nation are the four entities with major power), but I have to come up with a better reason as to why they are not there. Possibly the land was sold to the USA to fund some war or what not. I mean they owned Florida for a while, a similar buy out could occur. I'll have to think about this.

>>22274029

You said you had planned on Napoleon right? If he was to conquer Spain with Portugal, it is very possible that the monarchy would have fled to the Americas and set up shop there. Portugal did so in reality and the US could have filibustered the North American Spanish colonies in the confusion, just like they did to Florida in reality. Then, after the war finishes, the colony would have been unwilling to play second fiddle and some changes would have to be made. This leads to one of two options: The American colonies gaining independence or a share within the Spanish. Personally, I prefer the latter. It makes the setting seem more alien, the colony would still want European armies to call on when they have to face wall incursions, and it keeps the Spanish occupied while keeping them out of North America. The Spanish Empire would be huge and overstretched, more Brazilian than American, and thus kept out of European Politics while still offering an alternative model for American nations. Part of the US identity here could be that they alone are brave enough to stand vigil at the wall without Old World support, with the Native Americans ignored due to not being white. Just a thought.

Gentlemen, now we know the origins of the Wall. It has been foretold.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1034444