You just resisted one attempt by the court mages to combine their powers and put you to sleep, though your deific power has temporarily protected you against their magic you have a limited amount, and this is the kings guards, they can keep bringing in mages to replace those who tire themselves out until you fall. You’re powerful, but you’re not unbeatable, something tells you that staying around and trying to talk is a bad idea.

Still, you have options, you could surrender, but you’ll probably be knocked out. You could fight, but people will probably get killed, or you could flee, and try to figure a way out of the political mess you landed in. Now that you’re shackled, you’ll probably need to break these shackles to make a clean getaway.

>Break chains
>Fly out
>Teleport
>Fight
>Other (what?)

To use magic whilst wearing the manacles, you’ll need to use Deific Spell.

[Meta]

This first post of this thread replaces (retcons) the last in-quest post of the previous thread, for a full explanation why, please read the end of the last thread. I do not plan to discuss it further, but I am always happy to answer questions.

[End Meta]

>>36466263

Where exactly are we? Is there a window we could jump out?
If yes
>Fly out
And when away from the castle, or high above it
>Teleport

>>36466263
>Teleport

>>36466299
You're in the kings study. It has no windows itself, being deep within the castle, but at your speed it won't take long to head out the door and through the corridors to find a window.

>>36466263
>Teleport

THIS CLEARLY CANNOT GO WRONG!

>>36466263
How much Deific Power would it take to break the chains?

>>36466263
>Fly out
Considering how teleportation screams "dumbest idea possible", lets make use of those nifty wings of ours.

>>36466343
not many, if you roll well on the strength check.

>>36466246
First offm pally thank you for running
Math, if you see this thanks for helping me keep cool.
>teleport out
Also, FUCK YEAH PALADIN OF JOY QUEST

>>36466263
>Break chains
>Fly out
We can fly fast enough to break the sound barrier and they probably have one of those redirection traps that Salvastis had.

Breaking chains because:
>you’re wearing two sets of anti-magic shackles, you’re unclear on what the second set is for.
I don't want to risk the second set doing something wacky.

>>36466263
>>36466317
Chaning to >>36466393

>>36466263
>>36466299
Adding
>breaking of chains
to it

So fly + break chains it is, writing.

Please roll Strength check 1d20+13

Destination?
>Just out of the kings castle, consider options once in the air
>Go home, talk to allies
>Other

Rolled 12 + 13 (1d20 + 13)

>>36466494
>Go home, talk to allies

Rolled 18 + 13 (1d20 + 13)

>>36466494
>Go home, talk to allies

Rolled 18 + 13 (1d20 + 13)

>>36466494
>Go home, talk to allies

Rolled 6 + 13 (1d20 + 13)

>>36466494
>>Go home, talk to allies
We’ve lost the barony, we need to tell our allies.

>>36466523
>We’ve lost the barony
No, he lost the barony.

>>36466514
>>36466521
Twins.

>>36466523
>We've lost the barony
Except we haven't? Not yet, at least.

>>36466384
Glad to help.

>>36466523
I say we've gained the beginnings of an Empire. I've got a rather long proposal to post when what we should do comes up.

>>36466570
You should post it before the choice comes up so we have the chance to discuss it beforehand.

>>36466554
>>36466523
I kind of hope we can still mend things, once the king had time to cool off.
I'm fairly sure he will realise that trying to take it from us by force isn't going to get him anywhere.
Reason might yet prevail.

And if not, we start our own kingdom with blackjack and succubutts.

>>36466263
When we get called out on this we could hide behind the fact that although we would have woken through DP we would have been out long enough for the agent of a demon or the LoL.

>>36466591
>>36466570

Good point. vote on this will be coming up in a few posts, so a discussion now is a good idea.

>>36466626
Its not hiding behind, if its literally true.
We can't afford to be knocked out for who-knows-how-long. And frankly them trying to knock us out is already large enough an insult to our integrity that we don't have good enough reason to say "fuck this shit".

>>36466540

Unless we want to get thousands of people killed over some fucking succubi we should abandon the barony, round up our friends and any allies that want to throw their lot in with ours and leave for parts unknown
(tribal lands, drache, some other uninhabited land or plane) where we should plan our next moves to counter the upcoming rise of the LoLs.

Let me reiterate, starting a civil war in current climate (pun intended) is a fucking awful idea.

>>36466570
Secession might be a bad idea, it depends on how much of our trade revenue is export/import tax and how badly the king would react.

I do not want to have to fight the Heroes of the Horn, and an unavoidable civil war would throw that option right out the window.

>>36466656
Under optimal circumstances you would be correct, but leaving the barony is not an option for us.
Several reasons. First of all, we have a huge diversity of population, we already know the local nobility is not very open minded, unless we want to uproot thousands of people from their homes, we can't leave, or they will get stuck under some hardliner that needs to prove a point.
Second, our barony borders the tribal lands of our sister, who is a demon, and is currently building an empire of her own, it won't be long until the King decides that empire needs to go before it can become a threat and will attack it.
He has just now proven to be not very reasonable in this matter.

>>36466540
>>36466570
Stealing a barony from a mortal? Dick-move. Why not just point our city-destroyer at a few other Kings and take their realms as well, if we're already doing this much.

>>36466656
Even worse would be the inevitable war between Donmer and our sister.
Civil war might be a terrible outcome, but its actually a lesser evil by comparison.
Though, I still hope for a reasonable compromise.
Sadly Pally shot down the option of leaving the barony to Sofia, but maybe faced with the risk of civil war, the king might be more open to that compromise.

>>36466643
Alright here we go. Just posting the googledoc since that is easier.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vPQfZfGzLjMQnZKgSeWFWwhyHmY07FngPcrrkoeFaVY/edit?usp=sharing

>>36466742
Factually we aren't stealing the barony, there a wasn't really a barony before we build it.
It was mostly lawless wasteland.
And he expells us from his kingdom, we aren't doing anything except keep what is already ours.

I hope we do not have to do the whole civil war thing. That seems like a lose lose situation to me.

>>36466782
It pretty much is, giving up the barony is just a worse lose situation.

>>36466779
>read the first three lines
No.
I won't argue about your political and social opinions, but I would prefer you keep them out of this quest and don't try to shove in ideology completly out of line with the established setting.

>>36466779
Would you mind send that in an email to [email protected]

Im on a moblie and cant copy paste

>>36466779
>we should baolish the serf class

You, you can't "abolish" the serf class. Thats not how it works.
At all. Not even slightly.
Considering people apparently migrate in masses to our barony against the will of the nobility, we pretty clearly don't have serfdom.
And you can't "abolish" peasants. You kinda need those. And larger middle class replacing the peasantry isn't viable until industrialization shrinks the need for agrarian production.

>>36466779

Nope. Nope nope nope.

>>36466781
What? No, it was a border barony. We fortified it, but it was still under the jurisdiction of the King and all that.

Actually, I'd like to ask Paladin this:

>How does the system work?
Model A:
>The King owns all land. He appoints Lords and Ladies to govern some areas.
Model B:
>The King owns a lot of land. He rules over a lot of feudal Lords and Ladies. These own their land, but swear fealty to the King.

>>36466779

No. Let's not try to recreate IRL shit in there, it won't work. We'd need to change the entire world.

Also, fuck capitalism.

>>36466879
>it was a border barony
There was nominally a border barony there. But it didn't have a baron, nor much population.
The majority of people currently living there are, or are descendants of the Hanse refugees.

>>36466811
What grungy OS are you on that you can't copy-paste? iOS, Android, and WP8/8.1 all have a clipboard.

>>36466879
Model B: oath of loyalty includes upholding the kings laws and a bunch of other stuff.

>>36466811
sent

>>36466809
Its not about my political and social opinions. I believe this course of action is in stride with the actions that Sireyi has taken. As I stated

>Considering that first in the Kingdom of Gorim, now the Republic of Gorim, and again in the Drache we have fought for the people and all in all attempted to liberate oppressed populaces and create a more fair, just and overall Good society.

We have consistently attempted to create more democratic societies that were easier on the general populace.


>>36466850
I agree, that is not something we can do first. We need to actually create industry for any of this is to be viable. Turning peasants into a middle class and giving them more freedoms is something that obviously must come fairly slowly.

>>36466655
I'm afk for the next 20 minutes. Don't let the Anons forget we can play the Blue Empress card if we need to.

>>36466931
So, we own the land of Dalvin?
It was literally given to our ownership back then?

>>36466894
>We'd need to change the entire world.
Indeed. We'd need to change the entire world to into a better world.

>Also, fuck capitalism.
Really?

>>36466894
>Fuck Capitalism

No one has managed to come up with anything better anon.

>>36466952
>to create more democratic societies
No we ahven't. We have supported local uprisings, which have created republics because the established nobility/ruling class was highly corrupt.
You may remember that the political changes were never suggested by Sireyi, in both cases it was other people who did that.
Sireyi has pretty obviously no issue with feudal monarchy, she only cares about a system that makes peoples lives better, and she can do that in a monarchy just as well.
In fact, the example of Drache shows to her very clearly how an attempt of "democracy" just opens the gates for corruption, a issue thatr doesn't exist in a monarchay ruled by her and Sofia.

>>36466954
Yes

>>36466966
>into a better world
>capitalist democracies =/= better world
Don't be such a tool.
There is many ways of governance and stateforms that are perfectly viable, you can't assume one system works for everyone everywhere.
Whats important is always the people in authority, the actual system of governance is completly tertiary to the fairness of a state.

This isn’t going well, and you don’t fancy spending the night (or longer) in a cell, still, despite the guards and wizards around you, they forget that they can’t match your sheer speed. If only they’d bought a few paladins with them, this might have been tricky.

“This conversation isn’t over” you say to the king, and then leaping into the air you fly out of the room, yells of outrage and magical blasts follow you, harmlessly striking the walls. You speed through the corridors of the Kings castle until you see a window, flinging yourself through the wooden shutters you soar up into the sky, contemplating this unwelcome development and what it means as you set your shoulders against the manacles holding you, straining with all your might.

The sound of tortured metal greets your ears as links in the manacles break, you grip a manacle firmly in one hand as you glide, tugging and pulling at it until it comes off, whew those really were really hard to break, you needed all of your strength for that. You fly for home as fast as you can, swooping in the window of Sofias office as you do so.

Sofia looks at you strangely “Sireyi” she says, “are you expecting an attack?”

“Uh no” you reply “not right now, why?”

“You look ready for a fight” she points out “or are you just nervous?”

“I don’t feel nervous” you reply, wondering what she’s getting at.

“Your wings” she says, pointing behind you, “you look like you’re ready to assume another form for a fight, perhaps” you turn your head, huh, seems you didn’t turn all the way back from your full angelic form – you look like your normal half-angelic self, except you now have 6 wings instead of 2. You concentrate on returning to your normal form and...nothing happens. You try harder, still nothing, you screw up your eyes in effort and...the wings stay.

“I think they’re here to stay” you say, turning back to Sofia “I may need to get my clothes adjusted.” Indeed the 6 wings down your back do feel a bit strange, but not painful, nor do they impede your movement.

“How did you not notice them?” asks Sofia with a giggle

“I’ve had a lot on my mind” you say “for example...” you explain what happened with your audience with the king, Sofias face goes white as you talk, once you’re finished she gapes for a few moments, goes to the door and yells for a servant, instructing him to summon several of your allies.

Soon you and Sofia are joined by Jal, Isla, Matthias, Jianxi, Lunia, Ebonsong, Ophilian and Ophinus. Sofia locks the door and you explain to your allies briefly what’s happened. They look around at one another in stunned silence.

“That’s torn it” says Matthias “We’re at war with the whole Kingdom now.”

“Not necessarily” argues Lunia “diplomacy and negotiation can still win.”

“You used magic on the King though” says Jianxi “That’s a crime, right?”

“She didn’t use it on the King” argues Isla “A transformation spell targeting oneself is not an attack on another.”

“Not a lot of difference” observes Matthias “around His Majesty”.

“Creator” says Ophinus, flying around your head “what does this mean for you?”

“It means” you say “The King and I need to talk some more, and hopefully he sees reason.”

“And if he doesn’t?” asks Ebby.

“We’ll see” you say, honestly you haven’t thought that far ahead.

“You can’t meet him in person” says Ophilian “Don’t go near him.”

“Why not?” you ask, she’s leaning against the wall, looking uncomfortable.

“The last time a semi-divine being tried to take over a Kingdom was in Hanthol” says Ophilian “over a thousand years ago the mad Sorcerer Uriag gained godlike powers and was eventually defeated and killed-”

>>36466966
>We'd need to change the entire world to into a better world.
BY FORCE IF NECESSARY!
DELVIN, FUCK YEAH!
WE ARE GONNA BRING DEMOCRACY TO THESE FUCKERS IF THEY LIKE IT OR NOT!
Seriously?

“By a force of Konigs veteran paladins and the Heroes of the Horn” you finish, recalling the tale from your history classes “I know I’m not unbeatable, I hope the King will listen to reason.”

“And what is reason?” asks Ophillan, watching you...warily, as if ready to draw her sword “in this situation?”

>I’ll throw myself on the Kings Mercy (surrender, try to keep barony)
>I’m a Goddess, I’ll decide the future of Dalvin and the succubi (refuse to bow to kings command)
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)
>Other plan (what?)

This is not the final vote on what happens, that will be later, this is discussing it with allies as well as setting up start of conversation with the King (if you have one, that too will be a later vote).

>>36466931
Well then. Secession it is.

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)
>

>>36467033
>I’m a Goddess, I’ll decide the future of Dalvin and the succubi (refuse to bow to kings command)

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)

>>36466985
>>36467033
>I’m a Goddess, I’ll decide the future of Dalvin and the succubi (refuse to bow to kings command)

>>36466986
No anon. WE were the driving force that established the Republic of Gorim. We weren't alone, but that was a vote that was done in thread.

Also, I am not saying we go full democracy. I said empire, and an empire leaves us at the head. We cannot be everywhere at once and ruling a Empire where the people under us are able to be elected to best serve the interests of the masses.

We would remain in full control, having the last word on any laws or social policies.

>>36467033
>I’m a Goddess, I’ll decide the future of Dalvin and the succubi (refuse to bow to kings command)

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)
Compromise is necessary, we need to allow him to save face if we want a peaceful solution, he can't accept outright secession without bloodshed.
So we offer him Sofia become sbaroness, our daughter will assume the title at some point, but will otherwise be barred from inheriting our potnetial other titles.

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)
We need to reassure him that we don't want his throne.

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)

>>36467033
>I’m a Goddess, I’ll decide the future of Dalvin and the succubi (refuse to bow to kings command)

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)
Oh boy, this won't be pretty, one way or the other.

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)

>>36467033
>I’m a Goddess, I’ll decide the future of Dalvin and the succubi (refuse to bow to kings command)

We just attempted to have a conversation about compromise. That ended so well! Let's try again! Clearly it can't have similar results!

>>36467033
>I’m a Goddess, I’ll decide the future of Dalvin and the succubi (refuse to bow to kings command)

>>36467033
>When he asked me to become a baroness part of the agreement was that I my loyalty to the ideals of Velya would come first. He agreed to this when he gave me the barony.

>I am still willing to uphold my end of the deal, which was protecting the kingdom from the beastmen and improving this area. If that isn't enough for him anymore, I'll have to do it without him backing me.
Seriously, the King is trying to break the deal we had. We are willing to compromise on some things, but if we aren't even allowed to talk about them, then our relationship ends.

>>36467074

No, fuck any form of democracy/republic.

Either go full ruler or don't rule at all.

>>36467033
>I’m a Goddess, I’ll decide the future of Dalvin and the succubi (refuse to bow to kings command)

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)

>>36467033
>We’ll compromise (details to be decided later)

>>36467122
>>36467112
Shut the fuck up.

>>36467033
> compramize

>>36467137

Such a strong argument against their points

>>36467137
The first one is right though.
We did make it clear to him this could happen, and he agreed to it.

>>36467033

>We'll compromise
I hope he comes to senses. His authority has been shaken, but in private/presence of his close guard only so he doesn't have much face to lose.

compromise it is, writing.

>>36467149
The second on is not "a point".
We didn't actually get to compromise him, that was the entire problem.

>>36467112

That was before we made him shit his pants and got chased away by his royal guard.

The question here is whether he'll approach it as a pompous asshole and desire to punish us for our insolence (which I find likely) or approach us more cautiously next time (which may happen if he is smart and knows about impeding disasters)

>>36466779
The first problem I see with this plan is that it's structured around a 'Magical Industrial Revolution'.

While we could have the technology to do so, hypothetically, we need more than that - we need wealth and resources to create infrastructure; without the proper infrastructure, possessing the blueprints to the technology is almost meaningless.

Creating the leap in infrastructure between a medieval fantasy society and post-IR magical society would take an obscene amount of resources and money, even if it's just for our Barony.

The only way we might be able to get the appropriate amount of resources would be through Ellahi, and it's enough that we would strain Drache's entire economy and make her job infinitely more difficult, since so much money disappearing would cast a shadow on the government's claims that they aren't horribly corrupt.

Assuming Ellahi is even willing to grant such an absurd loan.

>>36467163
19 posters 19 votes. Pally you're one of those posters. Samefaggtry is a foot.

>>36467169
Second one isn't inaccurate though. We couldn't even bring up the subject of compromise.

I have a feeling the whole compromise thing is beating a dead horse. If he wanted to compromise he wouldn't have been so obstinate to the point where we felt we had to remind him he was talking to an angel.

>>36467112
I actually think if we wouldn't have underestimated the impact of transforming, we could have found a solution already there.

>>36467205
>Samefaggtry is a foot.
Gee no shit?
Thats pretty obvious.

>>36467123
Ah, so we should just deal with all of the minute bullshit ourselves when we have better things to do? The entire point is to create a system that makes it easier for our Empire to function while not leaving the poor downtrodden. I mean fuck, except for our Barony most of the peasant is royally screwed. I wouldn't be surprised if Nobles could rape and murder people and get away with a bloody fine. That is always going to create problems for us.

>>36467205
We all agree the King was a hard-headed idiot there, but that was talking from the heat of the moment, when he thought he could order us around.
There is a difference between then and now, which is the threat of civil war, a war he could very well loose. Compromise, is now in his best interest, even more so than it is in ours.

>>36467242
Which is why we should continue to type Compromise in varying was with varying attachments to it. Clearly if other anons cannot see that it is the best option we'll have to force them to do it!

>>36467205
>Samefaggotry is afoot
Probably, since I didn't vote.

Taking Angelic Form was kinda stupid, since every mortal story about an angel's true form would likely have them taking it immediately before killing something nasty.

>>36467231
>Industrial Revolution
>Not leaving the poor downtrodden
It's practically guaranteed they'd be treated like shit in the name of technology in every place not governed by Sireyi.

>>36467231
>Nobles could rape and murder people and get away with a bloody fine

Yes they can, as long as its a peasant they're doing it to.

Doing things to other nobles or members of the churches means they'll face real punishment though.

>>36467231
>I want a empire
>but I don't want to deal with actually govening shit
THEN DON'T GET AN EMPIRE!
Seriously, you make it worse and worse with every post.
Handing over governance just because your a lazy shit isn't a very good reason. Democarcy is a very very fragile system absurdly vulnerable to corruption. A issue thats magnified when being jumpstarted into it from a feudal society, because most people have no idea whatsoever about the political and economic issues that they would require to know about to form a opinion on policies.
Democarcy can only work even in theory if you assume a certain level of public education.

>>36467283
Yes because none of our suitors is fit to run an empire!

>>36467231

Industrial revolution is a terrible idea. Things are fine as they are.

Democracies are also shit.

If you are worried about nobles, they can have their privileges taken away easily and be hanged for such kind of crimes, all Sireyi needs to do is give the order.

If people want to move to Dalvin, they are free to do it. We don't need to change shit for that to continue happening.

>>36467231
Being an absolute rules != having to do everything yourself.

Do it like the chinese did: Divine ruler(s) on top, Ministers do the actual work.

>>36467231
>Nobles could rape and murder people and get away with a bloody fine
Thats a problem of the laws of the place, not of the system of state it has.
We can, you know, change those laws.
Regardless of our position, we can make it illegal and fully punishable within our barony, because every noble there is our vassal and we can punish our vassals, and every foregin noble would be damaging our serfs, which is also illegal.

>>36467296
Alone? No.
One person can't run an empire. Two people can't run an empire.

>>36467314
Because that worked so well.
>The empire once united must divide.
Lets not do that.

>>36467258
>Which is why we should continue to type Compromise in varying was with varying attachments to it.
>He thinks you need to change the words in your post to samefag
How cute and innocent of you, anon.

>>36467258
>One side samefaged different from the other
>clearly that means they are the legit one
I mean, I voted for goddess, but seriously. Thats a non-argument.

>>36467340
Eh, it did work rather well for a very long time. And we have the additional bonus of being an ACTUAL immortal divine ruler.

>>36467203
Thank you, that is a very good point and it certainly is something I worry about. My biggest reason, aside from the sociopolitical ramifications for teching up is that The Lords of Life have this technology AND hordes of undead. I have no confidence in the ability of normal men and women unassisted by technology to fight back hordes of technologically enhanced undead. The Knights of Konig could hold their own, but they'd certainly be quite outnumbered. We need the technology to bring our forces up to stuff with the enemies we will be facing.

As for places to get those resources, I'm thinking Gorim might be willing to help us, also I'm thinking that the plane that had a doorway near Ebby's lair would be a good place to get resources. We were already interested in helping the inhabitants. Now we have even more incentive to do so.

>>36467261
>I treated like shit in the name of technology in every place not governed by Sireyi.

Which is why we govern everything.


>>36467314
Thats near what I'm thinking, I'm just saying that it makes sense, provided we have the infrastructure in place, which we do not now,to make those Ministers elected by the populace.


>>36467313
>Democracies are also shit.
Sure they are anon. Sure they are.

>>36467403
>it did work rather well for a very long time
No Dynastie survived for more than, what, 300 years?
And the ensuing civil wars and chinas various peasant uprisings caused by the corruption of the bueraucracy fill the list of the deadliest human conflicts.

>>36467435
Yeah, but they didn't have immortal rulers. Let alone the ability to make several other immortal rulers. I mean come on, we are going to make Sofia, Jal and Isla immortal right?

>>36467419
>to make those Ministers elected by the populac
That makes no sense, how would uneducated peastnry know which minister is actually good at his job?
They have no idea. It would come down which Minister bribes the most people or makes the most hollow promises.

>>36467419
Athenian style democracies are shit. They don't fucking work. Athens was wiped out and corrupt as fuck.

Modern democracies/republics are better. But we're not capable of creating that. We're not suddenly going to just have the requisite knowledge and political theory.

>>36467467
Immortal rulers are a terrible idea.
Real life already has a issue with not even century old people in authority fucking up because they lost touch with daily reality.

For fuck's sake, we don't need this kind of change to create an utopia.

All we need is to spam good energies in the place and spread Velya's worship.

>>36467435
Again, we are an actual immortal divine ruler. That's a huge benefit if using that system.

Also we are far better equipped for selecting good people than those imperial families were. Many of them were just figureheads after all, while, and I know I'm repeating myself here: Sireyi is an actual divine being, who will probably turn many of her advisors and co-rulers immortal.

“I’ll offer a compromise” you say to Ophilian “I won’t abandon the people who depend on me, or my principles, but I don’t want this to come to bloodshed.”

“What will you offer?” asks Sofia “I ruled Hanse but I had no idea how rulers brought nobles under their control.” She looks at Isla, who shrugs “I avoided politics” she says “as much as possible.”

“I didn’t” says Ophilian, looking uncomfortable, and then staring at you sadly “Sireyi the Crown has had to bring nobles to heel before, sometimes a show of force is enough to make them accept the kings terms, sometimes a battle or a war has been fought, but the king has always done something to ensure that noble won’t be able to threaten them again.”

“Such as?” asks Jianxi

Ophilian pulls a face “like impoverishing the nobles realm, making them accept a magical geas from a priest, or taking hostages.”

“I don’t think a geas will affect me much” you say “and they couldn’t hold me for long if I wanted to get out, so imprisoning me isn’t a realistic option, which means the only thing the King can force from me is money.”

Islas head snaps around “not you” she says softly “traditionally a hostage is a nobles heir, or heirs.”

“Oh no!” says Jal, as Sofia looks outraged “no way in Hell angel! No one is taking Vivi, not happenin’!”

Jal and Sofia both start talking, loudly. After several minutes you get them calmed down, but they are adamant on that point: their children are not going anywhere without them.

In the uncomfortable silence that follows, Ophinus asks “How will you talk with this King, Creator?”

“Letters are best” advised Ophilian “Get too close and things could get violent.”

“Face-to-Face” argues Matthias “you’re good at convincing people.”

“Message spells?” suggests Ebonsong “you could be miles away and still talk.”

“They could be used to direct scrying or an attack spell though” says Isla

>>36467468
>>36467476
Okay. I am not saying that overnight we suddenly shift to this. I agree that simply would not work. We would definitely have to continue with an Empire that works on the feudal system while we tech up and begin to educate the populace. This is simply the direct I believe we should go. Not how we should overnight change our policy. That simply wouldn't work at all.


>>36467482
I don't really believe that is an issue. Basically >>36467494

How will you talk to the King?

>Letters
>Magical Communication
>Face-to-Face Meeting
>Other

Your mages can organise a long-distance conversation if needed.

>>36467494
>Again, we are an actual immortal divine ruler.
Which doesn't matter a all, because the daily governance of a empire isn't done by its ruler, its done by the bueraucracy he puts into place.
And the larger the empire the larger the bueraucracy, the less oversight we can have personally, and the more open it is to corruption.
It doesn't matter how benevolent the ruler is,
what matters are the people that actually make the daily decisions.
And china had a great system for its ministers, and it still went to shit on a regular basis.

>>36467533
>Face-to-Face Meeting

Letters can be intercepted and faked.

>>36467533
>Letters
>Send Ophinus

>>36467533
>Face-to-Face Meeting
We certainly do excel at face-to-face negotiation

>>36467526
>I don't really believe that is an issue.
Thats kind of the problem, you believe a lot of things aren't a issue because you have a sadly simple and idealized idea of how governance works.

>>36467513
>Face-to-Face Meeting
Neutral ground, at the borders of Dalvin.

>>36467538
But that's not solved by making it a democracy! Sure, democratic elements can be helpful to select so peeps, but having the policy makers be elected is not as useful as just letting the divine benevolent rulers and their homies do their thing.

And Sireyi and her Angels could totes go around and find out corruption. Corruption can happen in any system, and can be dealt with in any system.

>>36467533
Magical communication
Maybe see if vayla would help us

>>36467419
>As for places to get those resources
Gorim is a city-state, not sure they'd be able to help us with that without crippling their own economy.

That plane is extremely dangerous, even moreso than Hell. Didn't Velya say we'd need an army of millions or something to have any chance of success at helping the people there?

>>36467490
>Good energies
Like what, exactly?

Sanctuary is the only thing I can think of, and that wouldn't make people good.

>Spread Velya's worship
Can't really do that any more than we already have.

>>36467526
Doesn't the fact that it would take so long to do and consume so many resources make it a really, really bad idea to try this when we have the Lord of Life currently slaughtering its way across the continent?

We can already make powered armor troops, so I can see maybe using the node to find some upgrades for them, but other than that...

>>36467533
>Request a talk and see what terms he sets.

>>36467627
Wow wo, wait a minute. I'm not arguing in favor of Matthrians idea at all.
Democracies are a terrible idea straight from a feudal system because of >>36467468 .
Democracy is a very very flawed system, and it isn't for everywhere and every time.

>And Sireyi and her Angels could totes go around and find out corruption.
We don't have a "sense corruption" ability, sadly. And angels are great, but senind out the white-wing gestapo won't make people very happy in the further away corners of Matthrians hypothetical realm.

Face-to-face it is, writing.

>>36467659

just wait until Sireyi's divine status is stronger and we can begin irradiating good feelings.

>>36467703
2dystopian4me

>>36467576
>sadly simple and idealized idea of how governance works.

Well lets see... Considering we are in a game and Pally doesn't really seem to be one who bothers with the endless minutia that governing actually entails. Yeah, I certainly do. The idea is simple because it is rare for the massive amount of depth in governance and politics to actually be dealt with. And yes it is an idealized idea of governance, you have looked at the realm building parts right? Its nice and simple and fairly idealized. Get used to it.
>>36467659
>Gorim
Well every bit helps, and Gorim does kinda love us. Or they did anyway.

As far as the lord of life is concerned. Honestly we don't really know how long we have and I highly doubt that power armor is the height of the Lords of Life technology.

>>36467680
We don't have "sense corruption" but we do have sense evil, and we can mind read, and we are so damn good at talking to people we can usually quite easily tell when someone is lying or hiding something. And why wouldn't angels running around taking down criminals and corrupt officials make people happy?


The thing is, if we extrapolate from current realm building, the way corruption is going to show, is a decrease in revenue and a lowered approval rate. We will then combat it by putting money toward stopping the corrupt and increasing social services to increase public approval. You guys are getting caught up in a lot of minutia that doesn't exist except for plot fodder which frankly we are a little too powerful for it to be interesting gameplay.

>>36467659
Sorry anon I forgot to address
>That plane is extremely dangerous, even moreso than Hell. Didn't Velya say we'd need an army of millions or something to have any chance of success at helping the people there?

We certainly could not begin to help them all right now. But the place is absolutely FILLED to bursting with resources form thousands of planes. Storming in with angels and succubi we could very likely free tons of prisoners and retrieve massive amounts of resources to help fund the war against the Lord of Life. Do remember that from what we can tell, he is very overconfident and is taking his time to go about murdering everyone.

>>36467776
>It's only a game, so I'm allowed to be stupid about governance and never suffer any consequences or deal with any social ills
>What do you mean that breaks immersion and makes the quest unenjoyable?

“I’ll need to talk to him face-to-face” you say “in private if possible.”

“I don’t think that’ll happen” says Matthias, shaking his head “he’ll be buried in guards if you go near him.”

“Still” you say “he needs to know it’s me – letters can be intercepted and spells tampered with, and if I talk to him, I’m sure I can convince him.”

“Ok” says Lunia “what are you going to offer the King, and what are you asking for?”

“I could step down” you say “as Baroness.”

“Who would rule?” asks Matthias “Sofia? Or someone the king chooses?”

“That would keep him happy” says Jianxi “But he’d appoint a hardliner right? A real loyalist who hates demons.”

“Probably” agrees Ophilian “and if this is really about the Succubi, where will they live?”

“They can’t live in the Barony” says Isla “if it’s not ruled by you or Sofia, and even over the border in the Tribal Lands could test the Kings patience.”

“The realms finances can’t afford a big fine” says Lunia, looking to Sofia, who gives a short nod.

“And where Vivi and Mili go” says Jal, “we go” indicating herself and Sofia.

“As much as I don’t like it” says Ophilian “to protect the people of your Barony, maybe you should simply have the succubi settle elsewhere.”

Initial Deal

What will you ask?

>Stay as Baroness
>Succubi settle in Dalvin
>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)
>Other (what?)

What will you offer?

>Step down as Baroness (Sofia rules? King appoints new?)
>Pay fine (amount in multiples of 1,000 gold please)
>Hostage (Vivi? Mili? Other?)
>No Succubi nearby (all distant in Tribal Lands, or in Drache)
>Other (what?)

Contradictory votes may be ignored. This is a vote on what to offer, but your offer can change if the king doesn’t accept it.

>>36467776
>but we do have sense evil, and we can mind read, and we are so damn good at talking to people we can usually quite easily tell when someone is lying or hiding something.
So instead of doing the minituae of governance, Sireyi should spend all her time flying around rooting our corruption in person? Brilliant.
>And why wouldn't angels running around taking down criminals and corrupt officials make people happy?
Because everyone got something to hide. Corruption isn't the sole providence of few bad people, its something even decent people can fall into for many many reasons.
And angels aren't all the same, some are too harsh, some too lenient. The larger the empire gets, the less well reieved will be meddling.
If we centrlize too hard, people will get mad over stampng out local culture, if we don't centralize hard enough, people will want their own governance because they want things to be run different.
People don't rationally yearn for the best possible thing for everyone, they want what they think is the best for them.
Which very likely is terrible for a lot of other people.
Its not a matter of bad people vs. good people.

>>36467824
>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)
>Step down as Baroness Sofia rules

>>36467824
>Other (what?)
Only Angel conversion Succubi. And then as a temporary measure until we build our heaven.

>No Succubi nearby (all distant in Tribal Lands, or in Drache)

>>36467824
>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)
>Step down as Baroness Sofia rules

>>36467814
>It's only a game, so I'm allowed to be stupid about governance and never suffer any consequences or deal with any social ills
>What do you mean that breaks immersion and makes the quest unenjoyable?
Wow, you must really fucking hate this quest then. Because unless you haven't noticed the vast majority of that shit is swept under the rug already. We do suffer consequences and deal with social ills but god damn it its not like it would be any fucking different in a different system. There is always going to be shit happening that we need to take are of, and there is always going to be "problems" that Pally just handwaves because it makes for boring gameplay.

>>36467824
>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)
>Converted Succubi settle in Dalvin
>Step down as Baroness Sofia rules

>>36467824
>Succubi settle in Dalvin
>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)

Offer
>Step down as baroness, but Sofia rules
>Pay fine (1/3 of income)
>Hostage: First angel, and Jal and Vivi

Sucubutts stay in tribal lands

Sophia id baron
The elemental cores some or all

>>36467824
>Converted Succubi settle in Dalvin
>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)


>Pay fine 1/3rd income for 3 years

>>36467824
>Succubi settle in Dalvin
>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)

>Step down as Baroness Sofia rule

Absolutely no hostages, and we can'T afford the fine if we want to settle succubi in the tribal lands, we need massive amount of money to build up settlements there, that will already be a problem on its own.

>>36467824

>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)
Because that was why we're feuding in first place.

>Step down as Baroness (Sofia rules, or king appoints his own - but with guarantees that non-humans will not be persecuted, or else...)
We were clearly in conflict of loyalties, and if King is going to make it difficult for us to carry out or job, we better avoid this for the future by leaving office to someone else.

>>36467824
Step 1 apoligize, step 2 explain that the empress of the tribal lands will take them all in if she can, step 3 point out we hoped to turn some into angels and that angels would be keeping an eye on things.

>>36467824
>Succubi settle in Dalvin
Maybe only converted ones
>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (close to borders)

Offer
>Step down as Baroness (Sofia rules
>He won't lose the protection of his borders and we might consider not letting him freeze to death in the next winter

>>36467912
>>36467824
Sorry, i forgot to link my vote

>>36467890
So you don't actually have an argument and are relying on the QM to handwave everything to take care of all the horrible problems your idea would cause.

Ok so I'm seeing for initial offer the winning options are:

>Succubi settle in Tribal Lands (on the border)
>Angel converted Succubi only in Dalvin

>Sofia becomes Baroness

Writing

Oh what if we offer him a portion of our divine power

>>36468024
No, I'm saying that you are out of your mind if you don't think the QM already handwaves tons of problems with the feudal system by having them dealt with by spending money on them or by "events" which we work on. The system I'm talking about would be significantly better than just continuing with the one we have now. No system is foolproof and all of them have unavoidable issues. You are simply determined to focus on the negative problems all while completely ignoring the slew of negative problems we already currently have, such as having to to bow to some fucking asshole King. Not to forget about the myriad of social issues.

File: Hahaha No.gif (498 KB, 300x222)

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>>36468096

Ooops, forgot to add.

Please roll Fellowship 1d20+26

Use Angelic Voice?

Y/N

And any other powers you want to use for negotiation.

>>36468100
>The system I'm talking about would be significantly better than just continuing with the one we have now.
No it wouldn't.

Relying on handwaving to solve minituae of governance in a small realm > relying on even more handwaving to solve major issues of governing a larger realm completly out of sync with the system of governance and economy of the entire rest of ther world

>>36468094
>Angel converted Succubi only in Dalvin

Welp. If we can't have the unconverted succubi in Dalvin, then what was the point of DIVINE PROVIDENCEing the King?

Rolled 11 + 26 (1d20 + 26)

>>36468140
>n
I would have thought we would need to set-up the meeting and everything, to make sure he doesn't try to capture us or something.

Rolled 19 + 26 (1d20 + 26)

>>36468140
N

Rolled 17 + 26 (1d20 + 26)

>>36468140

N

isoloss 1579>>36468140

Y

Need to win

Rolled 12 + 26 (1d20 + 26)

>>36468140
>N

Rolled 20 + 26 (1d20 + 26)

>>36468140
N

>>36468141
Ah you are competently right. There is no other place like that has elections.
Oh wait.

>The Republic of Gorim is a very different place, being led by a council of 16 people, as well as elected representatives. The Council consists of: 4 generals; 4 guild reps; 4 religious leaders; and 4 senators, only two of which may be taken from nobility.

We did that. We hammered out in the thread a system of governance to take over the Kingdom and we decided upon a Republic and how many people would govern it.

>>36468223
>as well as
Which means, in case you don't know, elecion in ADDITION to the council.

File: yes_and.jpg (22 KB, 201x201)

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>>36468258

>>36468223
What does that have to do with the topic at hand?
Gorim is a small fairly homogenous realm, how is that comparable at all with the system of governance of a huge MagiTech empire?

Not to mention Gorim having such a system doesn't mean that it works well.

>>36468223
Which is nothing at all like what you have proposed and therefore not relevant to the point he was making?

all this megalomania...

good angel/deity would not seek to become god-empress of men. At most she'd assume a role of command or influence to thwart a particular threat, but not as a permanent political fixture.

>>36468304
>Not to mention Gorim having such a system doesn't mean that it works well.
Doesn't mean it doesn't work well.

>>36468318
It was relevant because
>system of governance and economy of the entire rest of ther world

I took this as at least a partial reference to the democratic points of my argument. As such I provided information that shows there is certainly a place that follows a similar governing system.
But fine, lets say my idea doesn't work. What the hell do you all propose? Since we are apparently giving up our Barony, but we do have 1.5 million succubi who may be very interested in following us because we are their Savior.
To put that in perspective, Dalvin's population is 95,884. We need some form of government and I don't think the succubi are going to be happy being peasants.

>>36468416
>Doesn't mean it doesn't work well.
Does mean you can't use it an argument for a system that works.

>>36468416
>I don't think the succubi are going to be happy being peasants.
Then they can go to Drache. They would have always needed to be peasants to sustain the population boom.
They got options afterall.
Our system of governance will be absolute monarchy, period. We decide. They obey. If they got a problem we will listen to it.
Problem solved.

>>36468343
The goal is to create an Empire that accepts everyone so long as they do good and does not judge them poorly based on what race they are, whether they are angels, demon, dragons, beastmen, human, orc, were(____), etc. We have consistently fought to help people and I see no reason why we should not continue. Why only help the people of our barony and improve their lives when we could help improve the lives of every single person on the plane? It doesn't have to happen all at once, but we are a Goddess and immortal, we need some sort of purpose and I see no reason why we don't simply continue the purpose that has been motivating us this entire time.

>>36468416
>I took this as at least a partial reference to the democratic points of my argument.
No, it meant that our empire would need to be politically hostile to the rest of the world, because they would also try to bribe our ministers for trade and alliances.
Empires don't exist in a vacuum.
And only very few people like having holy god-empresses with angel gestapo as neighbor.

>>36468485
>The goal is to create an Empire that accepts everyone so long as they do good and does not judge them poorly based on what race they are, whether they are angels, demon, dragons, beastmen, human, orc, were(____), etc.
Which works perfectly fine with a monarchy. In fact, it works better with a singular authority, because then prejudice of the less educated masses can't fuck things up.

>>36468485
In other words, you're being way too ambitious, not thinking things out properly and trying to decide what Sireyi does for the next few centuries while marketing it as a way to deal with our more immediate Devourer problem, which it isn't, and making huge leaps in your plan as opposed to the small steps which would actually be something approaching relevant.

If we tried to do it on mass how many succubi could we angel assuming they were added to our worshipers?

>>36468543
Wait, are you thinking about burning DP over and over again on something that we can recharge each hour when not in a combat situation?

Because that would be really, really stupid.

>>36468543
All of them, provided they take redeeming touch, it would just take months.

>>36468582
>, it would just take months
It costs 50 DE.
So, years, it more accurate.
We can transform 3 every hour.

>>36468582
Probably not months, we can dip into HP for it and regenerate 50 HP in 10 seconds with Sanctuary.

>>36468462
>>36468501

Anon, I have not said and have never said we should give up any power in the slightest. Sireyi should always have final say on what happens in the Empire. Period. No ifs, ands or buts.

I used the British as an example for a reason. Technically the Crown has absolute authority over what happens in Britain, However it almost never uses it, I am basically saying we create a system similar to Britain's only we feel completely free to exercise full control over whatever we want. Does that make any sense?

>>36468522
Oh its quite ambitious. As far as dealing with the Devourer problem, that has less to do with the Empire and more to do with a magitech revolution to actually prepare ourselves for war against the armies of the Lord of Life.

>>36468576
>>36468582
so no mass redeeming then?

>>36468621
Its 1 500 000 succubutts.
Assuming we can transform one every 10 seconds, it would take 173 days.
Assuming we do only that 24/7.
We got a certain pool in addition, so assuming we do it most of the day, it comes around that much anyway.

>>36468646
If they want it. We won't force them, but some might be interested.

>>36468677

>go to hell
>find a clan of oppressed evil succubi
>decide to take pity on them and bring them to mortal plane
>nearly start a civil war over them, then cook up ways to mass-transform them into angels (with no guarantees that their personality will come along with that plan)

/tg/ at its finest

>>36467824
We don't have enough divine power to create a small realm for the succubi?
Also, can we ask the goddess about this? What is Her opinion? Some divine guidance would be nice.

>>36468637
>As far as dealing with the Devourer problem, that has less to do with the Empire and more to do with a magitech revolution to actually prepare ourselves for war against the armies of the Lord of Life.
You mean the magitech revolution we don't have the resources or infrastructure to take advantage of and have no real way to acquire the resources for?

Gorim isn't nearly enough, Drache is out because reasons, the Grey Giant's home dimension is way too risky and would probably result in a counterattack.

>>36468726
>nearly start a civil war over them, then cook up ways to mass-transform them into angels (with no guarantees that their personality will come along with that plan)
It was never going to be a civil war, transformation is on a volunteer basis and it doesn't change their personality one bit.

>>36468748
It takes 100 DP to create a blank heaven, more if we want to expand and start shaping it.

>>36468726
>/tg/ at its finest
We try.
Then we look back and wonder what went wrong.

Several days of tense negotiation via letter later, you and the King are stood upon a hilltop at the edge of your Barony, one chilly morning. You both eventually agreed upon this spot and to limit your bodyguards to no more than a hundred.
You have bought all of your close allies with you, as well as some troops to make up the hundred allowed, but you’ve no interest in bringing this to violence. The King may have other ideas: He’s bought with him a force of Paladins of Konig, judging by their armour the most senior ones he could get, a cadre of Konigs priests accompany them, one holding a familiar-looking horn-shaped box. It seems you are being taken very seriously indeed.

A priest of Konig walks forward and plants a tall pole topped with Konigs symbol, the mailed fist into the earth, calling down Konigs blessing upon the parley and his wrath upon any that break the truce; a familiar enough spell – doing violence or using magic to attack or control the other party will set off an obvious signal.

The two of you walk out to meet one another, under the watchful eyes of both forces.

“Baroness Sireyi” says the King, wrapped in a fur cloak.

“Your Majesty” you say, nodding your head, you are wearing your casual clothes, the clod having little effect on you.

“How did it come to this?” asks King Corinthus, almost casually.

“I saw people in need” you say “And I want to rescue them, even though they are demons.”

“Right” he says, with a bitter laugh “they can settle elsewhere.”

“Not all want to” you say “But if they can’t settle in Dornmer then they can settle in the Tribal Lands, across the other side of the border.”

“Still too close” he says, shaking his head

“They won’t cross the border” you say persuasively “only those who accept transformation into Angels will be allowed to settle in Dalvin.”

>>36468677
You forgot to take the HP regneration into account.
We can transform 371 succubutts per hour, assuming we can touch that fast.
So that would 168 days non-stop succubutt touching.
Jal would be envious, I'm sure.

“A further problem” he notes “one people get used to seeing your transformed Succubi in Dalvin, the others will find infiltrating to be much easier.”

“They won’t” you insist “I’ll forbid them too if needed.”

“Perhaps” he says, looking away, then back at you “Who rules Dornmer?”

“You do” you say “Sire”

“Do I?” he wonders out loud “The nobles say I must demonstrate that I am in command and have not fallen under your sway, I cannot accept just this.”

“Then I will step down as Baroness” you say “Sofia Jalweyen will be an excellent Baroness.”

“And you will have no influence with or contact her?” asks the King

“Well” you say, blushing slightly “we were planning on getting married soon, what with one thing and another-”

“Unacceptable” says the King “You’d still be ruler of the Barony.”

“Why are the nobles so hostile?” you ask, trying to buy time as you consider your options.

The King laughs, a dry, bitter sound “Schools” he says “Hospitals, houses – all for your peasants, a noble goal, when the Church of Velya did this, the nobles accepted it as part of Velyas compassion and due to limited funds they were few and far between. But you’ve made them commonplace in your realm, now people flock to your realm, abandoning the others. Oh I know” he says as you open your mouth to object, holding up a hand to forestall you “Not your intention, and you’ve settled it with those closest to you, but now the idea has spread and radicals and revolutionaries across the kingdom no longer speak about the idle nobility, but rather the rights of the common man, and point to your realm as an example. No” says the King finally “that will not do, I need more from you.”

>I’ll not marry Sofia
>Offer fine (amount?)
>Offer hostage (who?)
>Other offer (what?)
>Ask King what he’ll accept (will trigger response before vote is finalised)
>I need time to think (pause negotiation, talk to allied and/or Goddess)
>We’re done here (no deal)

>>36468726
Angels with high sexual desires? I am looking at you Ilias.

>>36468763
Well, I do suppose that the incredibly mineral rich Tribal Lands filled with 20 million Orcs and Beastmen currently being conquered by our Sister could be the perfect place to acquire all of those resources we so dearly need. Btw, the tribal lands are 613,000 square miles, about twice the size of Texas. Taking the into account I expect we could get the resources we need.

>>36468814
>Ask King what he’ll accept
>Why not build hospitals and schools in the other realms then?

>>36468814
Could we get a Int-check on previous cases of barons being married to foreign rulership? Is there a reason this hasn't happened before?

>>36468814
>I need time to think (pause negotiation, talk to allied and/or Goddess)

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>>36468814
>idea has spread and radicals and revolutionaries across the kingdom no longer speak about the idle nobility, but rather the rights of the common man, and point to your realm as an example

I FUCKING LOVE YOU PALLY! GOD DAMMIT I DO!

>>36468855
And we can take advantage of all those resources right now, since the Tribal Lands clearly have enough infrastructure for that and our sister has dominated all of them and not just one incredibly small piece of them, right?

>>36468814
>Ask King what he’ll accept
>Lords of Life made winter bad, we both want me dealing with that.
>Why not build hospitals and schools in the other realms then?

>>36468855
And where do we get te resources to fund this massive mining operation?
Even setting aside the issue that we don't actually control the majority of that yet.

>>36468865
Good call, please roll 1d20+9 to recall other instances of nobles married to foreign rulers.

>>36468814
>Why not build hospitals and schools in the other realms then?
>Ask King what he’ll accept
then maybe >I need time to think (pause negotiation, talk to allied and/or Goddess)

>Konig Paladins everywhere
>motherfucking Horn
>sofia still hasn't talked thigns over with konig

Why the fuck has this been postponed so muhc? Jesus fuck, guys, this was important for Sofia and for the churches as well. having Konig's support for Sofia would have been perfect for this situation. imagine these 100 paladins losing their powers.

Rolled 19 + 9 (1d20 + 9)

>>36468902

>>36468814
Is there a priestess of Velya that we could make Baroness? Someone who would keep our principles without being under our direct control?

Rolled 3 + 9 (1d20 + 9)

>>36468902

>>36468814
>Sofia has ruled the barony de-facto for years. I would have influence, but I will, one day, be a goddess, I will have influence one way or the other. We can't afford to artificially weaken either of us with the Lord of Life already attacking us. We need all strength we can have, and a prosperous people, is the most important strength.

Rolled 14 + 9 (1d20 + 9)

>>36468902

>>36468915
nice

Rolled 4 + 9 (1d20 + 9)

>>36468902


>>36468914
>this was important for Sofia
Sofia not considering it important is why it hasn't happened yet. Its her business. We aren't going to force her.

>>36468814
>You knew this would happen. I told you so when you asked me to become baroness.

>I will feed the rest of the Kingdom in the next Winter. It will be even harsher than the last, and my powers will keep the it away. That should be worth more than any fine you could want from me.
>>36468880
Calm yourself.

>>36468814
>Ask King what he’ll accept (will trigger response before vote is finalised)
>I need time to think (Pray Goddess)
also this
>>36468862

>Why not build hospitals and schools in the other realms then?

>>36468814
> Your majesty could also benefit from the common man's will to learn more. If you would stand to the spearpoint of this new movement, helping the common man, you could be the progenitor of a new, brighter era, and you could set the pathways to lead the country to heights no one has ever seen in the world. You would be revered forever.

>>36469017
Except for the noblity rising up against him, which he just explicitly told us is the problem here.

>>36468954

We have always had the option of talking to her to give her a try. It's Sireyi's business as much as Sofias; the two are getting marries, her ancestry is a big deal.

Not to mention it would be good for Sofia as well, even disconsidering potential power ups from having her ancestor deity favoring her again.

>>36469050
>It's Sireyi's business as much as Sofia
No it isn't.
Its not actually Sireyis business at all.

>>36468887
>>36468881
You have to start somewhere anons. And no we do not, yet. But unless my memory is failing me, the idea was to conquer it and use the army against the Lords of Life. As well as gaining full control of the Tribal Lands so that an alliance with the Dwarves was possible.

I see no reason why we could not commence mining operations in areas that have been secured. As for how to start mining, I expect we could get started by using magic and using magical items produced in our Manufactorums to gain the resources to build more infrastructure.

>>36469050
Except she explicitly told everyone to stay out of her business in this regard.

It wouldn't, her powers never came from Konig and all that them being on speaking terms would do is let her take the Doctrine of Konig power.

>>36469050
>It's Sireyi's business as much as Sofias
Her not being on talking terms with her remote ancestor doesn't affect us at all. So, no, its not Sireyis business.

>>36469076
>You have to start somewhere
Correct, you have to start somewhere. But you only think and talk about the remote future.
The start is our sister taking control of the tribal lands and consolidating them.

>>36468814
>Other offer (what?)
Provide aid for the rest of the realm, raising the standard of living and leaving the revolutionaries satisfied.
This makes the whole country look good and shows the Barony is still under the kings rule as he "forces" it to help the rest of the kingdom.

>>36469103
How is building up infrastructure in secured territory of the Tribal Lands part of the remote future? Are we incapable of building infrastructure in protected areas and consolidating hostile areas?

>>36469130
>leaving the revolutionaries satisfied
I fear history has more then enough shown that revolutionaries are never satisfied.
And the king trying to take away power from the nobility in favor of uprising middle class, is a thing that happened, and never ended well.

>>36469152
>? Are we incapable of building infrastructure
Yes.
As of now we are incapable of building infrastructure into such difficult territory over such a large distance. At least in an amount that would bring a cost-benefit.
Our sister, most certainly has mining operations, dwarves, y'know, and we can build infrastructure to connect to those. At best, not even sure about that, the distances are somewhat vague.

>>36469152
>in secured territory
Our sisters realm is still pretty far away from our borders.

>>36469034
The nobles could also benefit from this, if they are funding schools and etc. They could gain more money in the long run, if they play it right (of course that will be hard).

>>36469152
You have to find those veins first of all. Prospecting takes time and resources.
Then you need to build roads though hills and over rivers, costing time and money. Then you need to hire and pay miners, not just miners, you have to build a settlement and find all the blacksmiths and backers and dozens of other professions a settlement needs.
This becomes worse the larger the mine is, of course. Then you have weeks, if not month of bascially no profit because you need to build the mine itself, you can't just start smashing ore out of the rock.
Facilities for storage and smelting need to be build.
Not even mentioning the protection against wild beasts and tribes.

>>36469254
Rationally speaking, yes.
Obviously they don't think that rational. Otherwise there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

>>36469198
>difficult territory over such a large distance
What is teleport?

And she may have mining operations but they are most assuredly not populated by Dwarves. They refused to have anything to do with her unless she unites the tribal lands.
Also, there is no reason why D Sireyi cannot assist us in building infrastructure.


Speaking of her.
Pally, how many Orcs and Beastmen current follow the Azure Empress? Additionally
>How far is her territory from Dalvin?
>What would we be looking at to establish some infrastructure/mines in her territory?
>What is the difficulty of transporting resources there?

>>36469305
>What is teleport?
How would that make the territory less difficult to build on?
Transportation is only one of many issues.
Assuming such large and stable teleportation circles are even possible, which would make me wonder why they don't exist everywhere yet.

>>36469287
>You have to find those veins first of all. Prospecting takes time and resources.

Of course we would.

>Then you need to build roads though hills and over rivers, costing time and money.

Indeed.

>Then you have weeks, if not month of bascially no profit because you need to build the mine itself,

You do remember when we found a random ass vein of gold by Ebby's lake and THAT YEAR we received money from it?

You haven't said anything incorrect, but we are very often turning over a year, and the stuff you are talking about is stuff we would need to put money toward to make this work. Even 5 years in the future is not "the remote future." Thats pretty damn soon.

“Nobles of Dornmer have married foreign nobles before” you argue “even rulers – Baroness Hendshire married the King of Hammad, Duke Justay married the Countess Gervalan – and she was a vampire! The Lady-”

“I know” says the King “but none of them were at the centre of a political storm, yes, they married nobles and rulers of other lands, but spent a lot of time apart, there was no question of who ruled what realm – can you honestly say you couldn’t rule through Sofia Jalweyen if you wanted?”

As you open your mouth to protest how unfair this is, he continues “And even if you didn’t, the nobles have made it clear they would not accept such, as long as there was a tie of marriage or other such connection between you.”

“Clearly the nobles have thought of everything” you say wryly

“A lot of options were discussed” says the King blandly

“What about building hospitals and schools and houses across the realm?” you counter “then people wouldn’t be flooding into Dalvin, did they discuss that?”

“The Merchants Guild did bring it up” says the King “I believe they were in favour of it, though I don’t understand why. They were shouted down and called anarchists and revolutionaries. I understand that it would be compassionate to do so, but to many it will look like giving in to revolutionary demands.”

“Then what will you accept?” you ask, our frustration showing a little.

The King sighs, looking ten years older than the last time you met; he gives a list of demands as if by rote.

“You must agree to one of the following; either you step down as Baroness and a candidate offered by the nobles and approved by the Crown will take up rulership of Dalvin, and secure the border by any means necessary; or, Sofia Jalweyen can rule but you must cut off all contact with her – any contact with her must be monitored and the Crown will send observers to ensure that she is providing a strong border defence; or, in order to ensure your good behaviour, one of your heirs of your choosing will become a ward of the Crown, until they reach the age of 18.”

You looks at you, and all you see is a tired old man wrapped up in furs, not a King.

>I need to discuss this (pauses negotiations)
>You pick the new Baron
>I will separate from Sofia
>I will give you a hostage (to be decided)
>And if I don’t? (question, answers before vote is tallied)
>No deal
>Other (what?)

>>36469305
>What is teleport?
You want to build dozens of teleportation circles in basically empty land?

>>36469346
>THAT YEAR we received money from it
Because that wasn't a random ass vein, that was already a gold mine.

>>36469363
>And if I don’t? (question, answers before vote is tallied)
>I need to discuss this (Speak with our Goddess)

>>36469363
I don't like any of those options. Do you guys think convincing the other nobles to hear the merchant guild out is an option?

>>36469363
>>I will separate from Sofia

>>36469363
>And if I don’t? (question, answers before vote is tallied)
>I spent a lot of time apart from the realm as well, as you know. All of these examples could also have ruled through their spouses. Sofia has ruled Dalvin de-facto for years, while I was away.

>>36469365
>THAT YEAR we received money from it

>Because that wasn't a random ass vein, that was already a gold mine.
Pally was that an actual gold mine or did we establish a gold mine there?


>>36469387
I'd certainly support it.


>>36469388
Seriously anon?

>>36469388
nope.

How much of the kingdoms border with the Tribel lands do we guard?
This is stupid, I can't afford for you not to be at full strength, you can't afford to slow me down with the Lords of Life making winters like that last one and no one who wouldn't be loyal to me would be able to keep this realm together.

Me turning angel was about the same as someone else standing up and raising their voice, confrontational but not an attack, I let your men cuff me and it was only when they tried to magic me to sleep, something that couldn't keep working unless you planed to kill me while I was out cold, that I left (not attacked anyone). With the Lords of Life and demon cults out there I couldn't take the risk.
>I will give you a hostage (hay kids who wants to stay with the king)

>>36469363
>I need to discuss this (pauses negotiations)
what if we find someone else to rule that we don't mind being cut off from but that we can trust?

>>36469363
>And if I don’t? (question, answers before vote is tallied)
>>36469399
>I spent a lot of time apart from the realm as well, as you know. All of these examples could also have ruled through their spouses. Sofia has ruled Dalvin de-facto for years, while I was away.
>Maybe this should be discussed with the merchant guild and nobility, then. If apparently the noblity rules this kingdom now.

>>36469305
>How many Orcs and Beastmen current follow the Azure Empress?

250,000 approx - just over 1% of the Tribal Lands

>How far is her territory from Dalvin?

Over a hundred miles - she has deliberately not expanded in the direction of Dalvin, though that can change

>What would we be looking at to establish some infrastructure/mines in her territory?

As it stands it would be expensive and difficult, requiring either a lot of money and/or magic. With the dwarves or magitech to help it would be a lot easier: the dwarves are expert miners and have existing tunnel networks.

>What is the difficulty of transporting resources there?

Depends on infrastructure - answer is similar to above question.

>Pally was that an actual gold mine or did we establish a gold mine there?

Existing mine, but one that had to have some work done on it - they were transporting gold through a portal, you needed to get it to the surface. Still with Ebonsong on hand and a little magic and ogre miners it was fairly quick to start producing.

>>36469363
>No hostages, no giving up marriage.
>You seriously want to tell me a VAMPIRE couldn't rule through her husband. A VAMPIRE!
>And if I don’t? (question, answers before vote is tallied)
>A FUCKING VAMPIRE! You let vampires marry your rulers but not a HALF-ANGEL SAINT. LIterally WHAT???
>I need to discuss this (pauses negotiations)

>>36469363
>No deal

Give up everything/Your wife/Your kid

No thanks

>>36469477
>SERIOUSLY A VAMPIRE???
I cant get over how much bullshit that is he is trying to feed us here.

>>36469387
>>36469426
We *did* successfully negotiate with other barons about problems they had with her WITHOUT magic or supernatural elements so it's a credible option.

>>36469414
No way. Siery, Sofia and Jal would want to raise their kids and make sure they are raised in a positive environment. Plus it's a problem if the king is suddenly succeeded by someone else for whatever reason.

>>36469467
Many thanks Pally. Taking that into consideration. I'm thinking we should talk with D Sireyi about expanding in our direction. I already made my case for magitech and I also suggested we use magic to start establishing infrastructure.


>Existing mine, but one that had to have some work done on it

So a bit of both then. Alright.

Taking all that into account it seems to me that we would definitely need to make a major investment into it, one way or another.


Is there any way to make that easier? Make the land less harsh or something?

>>36469363

That makes it sound like the king doesn't really like this , either. Can we develop a plan to back him and the merchants guild against these other nobles?

Barring that, can we maybe advocate a priestess of Velya as a compromise ruler?

>>36469560
They would argue as Saint and paladin of Velya, we would have influence there too.
The whole "influence" thing is bullshit that solely serves to make a excuse for trying to put in someone who we wouldn't approve of at all.

>>36469363
>And if I don’t? (question, answers before vote is tallied)
>I need to discuss this (Pray to Velya)

We don't need to prey to Velya for this.

>>36469363
Let us pause for a day or two, we need to talk to the goddess about this.
Too bad the nobles are to afraid to lead the country to a new prosperous age.

What would it take to get word round that the Lords of Life are why winter was so bad the lords trying to take our land are making it harder for us to stop them.
>No way. Siery, Sofia and Jal would want to raise their kids and make sure they are raised in a positive environment. Plus it's a problem if the king is suddenly succeeded by someone else for whatever reason.
We can still visit them.

>>36469663
I like talking to Velya, its kind pointless, since she can't really give us much advice beyond the reaction of other gods, but hey, it doesn't cost usd anything to bounce some ideas around with the big shiny lady.

>>36469705
pretty much this

“And if I don’t pick any of those?” you ask.

The tired old man in front of you straightens up, and once again you face the King “Then you will be declared a traitor to the Kingdom, I will call upon my armies and we will march into your realm and capture or kill anyone who stands against us. You will of course be afforded a full trial, but if found guilty you will be executed – and if that doesn’t take you will be an enemy of Dornmer, hunted wherever you go within the Kingdom. I expect your close allies will face the same fate. You children will be counted blameless due to their age and placed with foster families, I believe the Church of Konig will take custody of your daughter, I don’t know who will take custody of your son.” He proclaims all of this in a loud, carrying voice, speaking for those in the distance, as well as you.

“That’s assuming you win” you say, softly “that will be a harsh road for us both.”

“I know” he answers just as quietly “but right now, neither of us has much of a choice.”

“I need time to think” you say, at a more normal volume.

“You have until noon” he says, walking away.

You head back to your allies. What do you do?

>Pray to Velya
>Pray to Konig (with Sofia?)
>Talk to allies
>Leave (ends parley, starts war)
>Other

You will have the option to do all the things if you want, but which comes first – please pick only one. *Leave* ends things.

I like the discuss with nobles, merchants guild idea, will add it as an option once negotiations resume.

>>36469719
>Pray to Velya

>>36469719
>Pray to Velya

>>36469719
>Pray to Velya
>Pray to Konig (with Sofia?)
might as well.

>>36469532
>Is there any way to make that easier? Make the land less harsh or something?

You don't have the power to get rid of the mountains, but you can make it full of life and health: with a bit of help from Velya you could turn perhaps 1,000 square miles per Deific Power into lush and fertile lands, though you might need to re-use the power every few years.

>>36469719
>Prey to both Gods

Sigh. Better late than enver?

>>36469719
>Pray to Velya
Lets ask the boss lady what she thinks of this clusterfuck.

>>36469719
>Pray to Velya

>>36469719
Can we take the trial first to see if we can talk out what happend?

>>36469719
>Pray to Velya
>Pray to Konig (with Sofia?)
If this all fails, ask the King if he's really in charge if the nobles get to tear the kingdom down out of envy.

>>36469796
The trial is for revolting, we haven't revolted yet.

>>36469760
>>36469800
>please pick only one

>>36469719
>Pray to Velya
>Pray to Konig (with Sofia?)
>Talk to allies

>>36469760
This.
>>36469762
This could work well!

>>36469719
Oh sorry, i missed the picked one. changing >>36469818 to Valya

>>36469800
>, ask the King if he's really in charge
He told us he doesn't he realises that. And obviously has decided to give in to them.

>>36469719
Can we get both gods online?

>>36469760
>Pray to Konig

OK, removing vote for velya.

>>36469800
It does seem they are a thorn in his side as much as ours, and and we can propose to help him dealing with them and the merchants.

Also consider the fact, that we might backup now doing what the nobles want, but later they will come again, since people like what we are doing with the place. In due time they will find the way to kick us out of the picture...

>>36469855
Um, you're changing MY vote. please don't do that.

>>36469762
hey pally, is there a way to tell is someone has been praying to a god or a saint?

>insubordination to the king in favour of demons

it seems like praying to konig is a waste of time

>>36469855
>>36469871

Fuck, sorry. I meant >>36469778

>>36469893
>it seems like praying to konig is a waste of time
Konig seems to be the only god these dicks listen to anyways.

>>36469933
Because he's a dick, he's the god of dicks, that's why the dicks listen to him.

Also god of hierarchy, so of course the douchebag nobility will want him to be respected, they want to stay in power.

>>36469915
it's okay.

anyway, I hope the king asks himself if all this is worth a war. One that he knows will cost him greatly and leave the kingdom much weaker.

>>36469889
>is there a way to tell is someone has been praying to a god or a saint?

Yes, unless the god in question spends deific power to keep the conversation undetectable.

>>36469958
>god of hierarchy
We could ask him to pass jugment for what happend.

>>36470021
That would not be in our favor.

>>36470021
Lol, that would be bad I expect. Really bad

>>36469958

I resent that. Philly is not a dick, and I'm pretty sure there are enough other paladins among his followers that aren't dicks either, including some of the heroes of the horn.

what if we post pone the marriage. Sophie rules until we can find a suitable replacement among the nobility. All of them can't be complete shitheads.

>>36469933
>>36469958

We still have Sofia.

Who could have been nudge into getting into friendly terms with him way earlier.

Fuckers, we should have asked her to reconsider her awful decision.

>>36470021
>>36470039
>>36470082

You know what could have helped? Sofia and Konig becoming buddies.

But nope.

>>36470146
>Who could have been nudge into getting into friendly terms with him way earlier.
Beeing on freindly terms with him has absolutely no relevance. He isn't going to change his nature to accomdate us.
He is going to judge as he considers fair.
Regardless of if he likes us or not.

>>36470131
You overestimate them. And it's not just post poning the marriage, it's giving up the right to see her whenever we want and in private.

>>36470164

He would be more open to persuasion from Sofia, though. Justice is subjective.

>>36470146
Sure, that god of hierarchy and law will totally change his opinion and rule different for us because we fuck his descendant. Sounds legit.

>>36470178
it would be for as long as she rules.

>>36470187
>Justice is subjective.
He has a different opinion on that matter, which is the problem with him afterall.

He would not be persuaded by a mortal.

>>36470146
It wouldn't have changed anything, acting like this because you lack any kind of ability at debate or persuasion isn't very flattering to your intelligence.

>>36470187
Not really, not to Konig, at least.

>>36470039
True but with him backing the jugment the other lords would have a hard time saying it was too soft when the king doesn't push for hash terms. Plus he's as close to a jurry of our peers as we're likely to get.
>>36470146
she can still be a character witness.

>>36470209

Sofia is not any mortal.

>>36470231
I doubt that god of justice is big on nepotism.
Of all his flaws, this is definitly not one of them.

>>36470164
He should get to know that right now his descendant is getting the choice of either exile or never seeing the "father" of her child (who is also a future member of the pantheon) ever again.

>>36470213
>It wouldn't have changed anything,

You can't be sure of that. Do something different and everything else might change.

>>36470284
>He should get to know
He is a god, he knows.
And his opinion won't change over Sofia being his descendant. He will rule as he finds right.

>>36470288
It can change for the worse too. And thats more likely all things considered.
Sofia has a reason to not want to talk to him anymore. And it was a pretty good reason.
Her opinion on the matter hasn't changed.

Just to be clear I'm not saying he would see things in our favor but as he has more powerthan us he doesn't need to make an example of us and if the king isn't pushing for us to be punished then we could get better terms (i.e. a magic vow we can't break) than are on offer now.

>>36470330
>It can change for the worse too. And thats more likely all things considered.

Oh, so risk is an excuse to not try to improve things? Holy fuck, that's stupid.

had this been done EARLIER, asking for his favor would have been a fucking great plus.

>Sofia has a reason to not want to talk to him anymore. And it was a pretty good reason.

What was the reason again?

>>36470406
What are you even talking about at this point?
There is no punishment planned for anyone. The current terms are what the nobbility forces the king to demand to appease them, that has nothing to do with Konig.

“What’s going on?” asks Lunia as you return

“This is getting difficult” you say “I need to speak to Ve-”

There’s a sudden wrenching feeling and then you are standing on a hillside in Velyas Heaven. Velya is there, and your mother, both looking worried.

“-lya” you finish.

Your mother rushed forward to embrace you, arms and wings wrapped protectively around you “Don’t listen to him” she whispers in your ear “if he attacks you, I’ll fight for you.”

Velya coughs politely and gives your mother a stern look, she glares back at your Goddess, but backs away.

To you Velya says “I’m sure you have questions.”

“Yes” you say “like is there any help you can give, or advice?” you don’t sound desperate dammit, you are a grown woman, not a child!

Velya looks uncomfortable “The path of good is not an easy one” she says “here you face a choice – help the succubi you promised to aid, or keep your position of temporal power.”

“The succubi can live in Drache or the Tribal Lands” you say “They don’t *have* to live with me.”

“And yet many will want to” points out your Goddess “Seeing you as their saviour.”

“Can’t you intervene” you ask “Please?”

Velya shakes her head and your mother rolls her eyes “I don’t give orders if I can help it” says Velya “and even if I did, although my church is popular with the commoners, I have little influence with the nobility, an order from me would be ignored.” She looks at you consideringly “you could though.”

“I could what?” you say

“You could use your powers as a Goddess to convince them” says Velya “shape the world around you to make everyone agree with you – the King, the nobles – they could be in the palm of your hand.”

You stare at her, trying to figure out why she’s telling you this “this is a test, isn’t it?” you ask.

>>36470438

With konig's sympathy, the paladins of Konig wouldn't be here to guard the King, making the Nobles' cause weaker.

Would also help a lot if a war breaks out.

“It always will be” says Velya “Gods live apart from mortals for many reasons but this is one: you could change the most stubborn mind with only small portion of your power – tyranny is so very, very easy under these circumstances.” Her voice trails off and you wonder what Velya was like as a young Goddess.

“Our Lady” interrupts your mother “makes a good point, but Konig *is* a God with a lot of temporal influence, and He isn’t likely to want his descendents convicted of treason, in this case, borrowing his authority might be the right thing.”

>End conversation
>Say something else/ask question (what?)

If Ending, pick one option from below

>Pray to Konig (with Sofia?)
>Talk to allies
>Leave (ends parley, starts war)
>Other

>>36470483
>With konig's sympathy, the paladins of Konig wouldn't be here to guard the King
The paladins of Konig would always defend the king, Konig wouldn't forbid his paladins from doing their duty to strengthen our position.
Again, he doesn't do Nepotism.

>>36470496
>Pray to Konig (with Sofia)

>>36470483
Except they would and it wouldn't because that's not how Konig works.

From his point of view, we are the ones in the wrong, no amount of sympathy would make him compromise his principles over this.

>>36470501
>>36470515

OH HEY

>>36470496
>He isn’t likely to want his descendents convicted of treason, in this case, borrowing his authority might be the right thing

Can you please take a hint when the QM throws it at your face?

>>36470496
>End conversation
>Pray to Konig
>Without Sofia