>>41644230
Zulus.
>Spaniards beat aztec
>Brit beats spaniard
>Zulu beats brit
>hence zulu beats spaniard and aztek

>>41644230
>premodern warfare
First engagament gives no conclusive results. Before the second one, the aztecs start getting sick.
Zulus win.

>>41644230
Zulus. Aztecs didn't kill people during war.

Aztec warfare was more ceremonial, aiming to capture sacrifices and cow their vassals.

Wheras Shaka Zulu reformed his kingdom's military to move away from those sorts of symbolic skirmishes, and more towards being a highly mobile conquering force.

Plus, Zulu have iron weapons, which are more durable than flint or obsidian, and so, more suitable for prolonged engagements.

>>41644399
I thought the Aztecs just tried to capture people, and the Zulus danced around insulting the enemies mothers before fleeing and claiming victory

>Iron age warriors vs stone/copper age warriors
Gee, I wonder...

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>>41644264
>Zulu beats brit
u wot

They did pretty well for what they had and won a couple of key battles, but they still lost.

>>41644433
That's Pre-Shaka

Shaka forced his warriors to adopt a shorter assegai, fight barefoot for better stability, and engage in intense physical conditioning for their entire military career, running long distances and toughening the soles of their feet by beating them with thorns.

Shaka's principal strategy was an encirclement of light infantry: fairly simple, but highly effective with such a well conditioned and mobile force.

Shaka's Impis may have had some of the best physical fitness levels of any pre-modern military.

>>41644481

Zulu beat British forces in a number of battles. Obviously no one is saying that he won the fucking war, anon.

Still, it's probably the best track record of any indigenous army against an invading colonial force.

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>>41644538
>unga bungas
>better physical conditioning than roman legionaires
Numidian you must be joking.

>>41644566
Much love to the Zulus.

They were the last truly great "Barbarian" people.

>>41644566
New Zealand would like a talk with you

>>41644570
>Fat, wine-soaked boyfuckers
>More fit than Shaka's lean, mean cuck machines

Go back to your Greek serving boy, Bacchus.

>>41644264
>Brit beats Spaniard
With the help of the perfect storm.

>>41644570
a.) where did he state that
b.) since when are the legionaires known for their physical fitness
c.) don't you dare take this as a sign that I don't fucking love Roman warfare

>>41644570

>better conditioning

No joke.

>better discipline

No, obviously not.

But you're comparing two very different styles of combat. Zulu martial strategy trended much more heavily towards what we would consider guerrilla warfare, Roman Legionnaires were large-scale invasion forces and specialized capturing and defending walled cities.

That's like saying Oxy Clean is a shit cleaner for whites because it ruins your colors.

>>41644593

>implying there was, is, or has ever been a colonial presence in New Zealand anywhere near the size of what took place in Africa.

You're retarded, anon, if you think the amount of resources spent fighting Shaka Zulu and his forces are even comparable to that spent hunting down savages in the backwoods of an island that has the geopolitical significance of a snowball in summertime.

>>41644566
Who are Gurkas?

>>41644566
So some Zulu beat British, like some Aztects beat Spaniard and like some Spaniard beat British rendering this >>41644264
useles

>>41644619
Gurkhas aren't an indigenous army, they're a mixture of several different ethnic groups brought together by the British imperialists

They didn't exist before, they were created

>>41644570
I'm really not.

Shaka's training regimen was inhunmanly brutal.

It'd certainly give theirs a run for their money.

See, when all you've got is a hide shield, a spear, and your good self, you work on what you got.

Plus, these men lived in a hunter-gatherer society, where many warriors would have spent their spare time tracking and hunting game.

Let me tell you, carrying a dead ibex ten miles is a hell of a workout.

>>41644570
Nigga the Zulu warriors were forced to stop wearing sandals by Shaka and run over 50 miles per day. This was after conditioning their feet by stomping thorn bushes flat barefoot.

>>41644623

>>41644264 This commend was useless from the get-go for obvious reasons. Pretty sure that anon was joking. Unless he seriously thinks causality works that way. But hey, congrats on your autism being so fucking colossal that it overwhelmed and expelled any sense of humor you may have had.

>>41644640
>Let me tell you, carrying a dead ibex ten miles is a hell of a workout.

Alright, anon. I'm on your side in this debate, but seriously, we all know you haven't carried a dead ibex twenty feet, much less ten miles.

>>41644617
>You're retarded, anon, if you think the amount of resources spent fighting Shaka Zulu and his forces are even comparable to that spent hunting down savages in the backwoods of an island that has the geopolitical significance of a snowball in summertime.

you're retarded if you think I'm implying that. And you are. You are retarded. I was talking about success. The results matter, not the opposition. That's like saying the black plague was more succesful a strain than the common cold is because it takes more energy to kill a host.

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>>41644602
>Fat Roman Legionaries
>Greeks are Romans
>Unironically using the word "Cuck"
Oh, I see. Your feelings determine history, not actual facts.

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>>41644427
>Aztec warfare was more ceremonial, aiming to capture sacrifices and cow their vassals.
Aztecs also know when to get down to business. They were almost always at war with the nearby city states. Their state was born with ALL of their neighbors against them. And they were basically have a medieval army once you come down to it. Cunts even have paperwork and logistics units. They're a civilization ffs.

Oh and Aztecs have armor. Zulus don't save for a codpiece and a cowhide shield. Aztec quilted cotton jackets are considered good enough that Spain eventually used them themselves for colonial troops.

Also Aztec Atl Atls & archery outrange and outpenetrate the literal spear chucking of Zulus which is all the missile warfare they were used to.

>>41644640
Actually the Zulus were mostly millet farmers and cattle herders.

>>41644604
>God was on our side so it didn't count
Get rekt spic

>>41644230
Shield and spear carrying formation fighters plus skirmishers with rifles.

vs

Ceremonial fighters with stone/glass machetes.

What do you think?

>>41644399
U wot m8? If a giant horde of barbarians is coming to attack, some leaders may sit down and say it's within everyone's best interest to kill.

I never understood Zulu wanking.

Other African countries like Asanteman, Benin, Ethiopia, Dahomey, or Mali would have turned them into ground beef.

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>>41644646

Only people in history who could hold a candle to the sheer insanity of conditioning practiced by Zulu warriors were ancient Greek couriers.

>>41644659
>you're retarded if you think I'm implying that. And you are. You are retarded. I was talking about success. The results matter, not the opposition. That's like saying the black plague was more succesful a strain than the common cold is because it takes more energy to kill a host.

Pic is very much related. You're talking about levels of success in the face of opposition, and then going ahead and negating any difference in the amount of said opposition because you're so desperate to prove your point.

I crushed a cockroach today so I'm obviously God now. Fuck, anon, you have zero sense of scale.

>>41644566
The battles the Zulus won were usually the ones where they outnumbered the British 10:1. And even in those situations, the British won as often as they lost.

As someone else said, the Maori probably had a better track record, but the anglo-maori wars were barely skirmishes compared to the anglo-zulu war.

>>41644611
>Since when are the legionaires known for their physical fitness
This is a joke, right?

>>41644230
My money's on the Zulus. They manage to fight to a standstill what was supposed to be one of the best fighting forces of their time and even started pushing for an early end to the war but the British commander wouldn't have any of it and called for the full might of the empire down on a civilization that was about the size of New Jersey.

>>41644667
Sir, you are correct.

However, they still supplemented their diets with more game than the Romans, principally because there was more large game in Africa, and hunting is a rite of passage in basically every sub-saharan African culture.

>>41644704
so what metric of success is this you are talking about? Complete this sentence: 'The Zulus are the most succesful colonialized people in: '

as in:
'The indigenous New Zealanders are the most succesful colonialized people in: Resisting their occupiers and forcing them to favourable terms of peace'

>>41644664
>Also Aztec Atl Atls & archery outrange and outpenetrate the literal spear chucking of Zulus which is all the missile warfare they were used to.

Truth, but the strength of the Zulu forces wasn't exactly in ranged warfare, was it? We're getting into apples and oranges territory here.

Zulu martial tradition prized quick and untraceable troop movement, brutal short-range strikes, and then quick retreats. Then secondary assaults based on the same model, only coming from different directions.

It was about striking fear and uncertainty into the hearts of your enemy, not simply dealing damage from afar. Not trying to put down the practical value of atl atls, but they would have had little if any place in Zulu martial tradition.

>>41644719
no, cite a source that supports that the Romans had higher hysicl fitness than other comparable soldiers, like for example Macedonian hoplites.

>>41644744

The New Zealander's "occupiers" were a token force smaller than most high schools.

The Zulus are the most successful colonialized people in...actually fending off a committed assault from an industrialized nation. Britbongs brought the hammer down on Shaka & co. But I doubt anyone in England during the New Zealand "wars" even fucking heard of them.

We're talking about a massive difference in scale, non.

>>41644748
Thant's not exactly the point. Aztecs have a ranged advantage, so unless there's the world's most convenient ambush, a good number would be wounded or dead by the time they reached the Aztecs.

>>41644704
>I crushed a cockroach today so I'm obviously God now. Fuck, anon, you have zero sense of scale.

Even if you have done nothing else today, you are more succesful at staying unharmed than a guy that killed eight tigers attacking him that got killed by the ninth. Do you not understand the word or something?

>>41644776
Depends on whether you think aztec arrowheads would penetrate Zulu shields, I guess. I'm thinking not.

>>41644774
okay, so they haven't got

> the best track record of any indigenous army against an invading colonial force.

but instead the best track record against a committed assault from an industrialized nation.

which of course takes out most colonialized people, including aztecs out of the equation, since they are pre-industrialization.

>>41644776

So, the entirety of Zulu ambush victories over a force wielding gunpowder-based weaponry several centuries more advanced than what the Aztecs faced from the Spaniards came down to convenience? That's stupid.

If the Zulu forces could successfully ambush and slaughter British forces carrying weapons more advanced than the Spaniards who took a steaming shit all over the Aztec military tradition, then yes, you bet your sweet little ass they could take out the Aztec's so-called "ranged advantage".

Don't Zulu have steel weapons? Steel beats Rock

>>41644230
Depends entirely on terrain.

>>41644791
Can stone cut elephant or hippo skin?

>>41644800

Hooray, anon. You can mince words in order to dodge my argument. Congratulations.

I'd offer you a cookie, but I'm fresh out. Pity.

>>41644791
The Zulu shield was principally a parrying tool, hide shields can stop long-range arrow-fire, but the penetrative power of an atlatl dart is comparable to a musket ball according to Spanish sources.

>>41644671
I always like to compare storms that broke the spanish armada and the 'divine wind' that prevented the mongol invasion of japan.

An island nation is invaded by a continental empire, a storm scatters and destroys the invading fleet, islanders mop up the survivors, claim divine intervention.

>>41644776
Don't forget that the Zulus had also obtained gunpowder weapons by trade or capture.

>>41644829
>An island nation is invaded by a continental empire, a storm scatters and destroys the invading fleet, islanders mop up the survivors, claim divine intervention.

I mean, that's pretty much a windfall for any nation's propaganda wheel. If I was in charge, I'd have made the same claims. It's not luck, anon, it's God's will!

>>41644826
That, to me, just sounds like the spanish bigging up their enemy to make their defeats seem more plausible than getting their ass kicked by savages.
>The darts were like musket balls man, I swear down!

>>41644810
Yeah take your katana and hit a fucking stone with it and see what happens retard

>>41644763
http://www.roman-empire.net/army/training.html
https://suite.io/steven-fife/1y082ge
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/gabrmetz/gabr0010.htm
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/romeweapons/p/RomanArmy.htm
http://www.tribunesandtriumphs.org/roman-army/roman-legion.htm
Physical fitness and Mental fitness were super important to them, Hell the swimming pool is a Roman invention, used just for conditioning.

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>>41644748
>Truth, but the strength of the Zulu forces wasn't exactly in ranged warfare, was it?
I'm just saying they will have a hard fucking time with the Aztecs.

The Aztecs aren't "Ceremonial Fighters who just dance about like idiots" you know. Spics said they had formations, practiced ambuscades, and terrorism

Also Zulus pretty much lived in an environment where they were the only cunts doing high intensity conflict in an area that used to be about low intensity conflict. They found themselves losing in a spearchucker ceremonial war that the Bantu Speaking Tribes in the area mutually agreed to keep casualties in a minimum and decided to fly in the face of tradition by now massacring people in melee. Which is how they built their empire anyway.

Aztecs meanwhile have been on high intensity conflicts with all their neighboring city states since the Triple Alliance that founded the Aztec state was declared in Lake Texoco. There was no call for ceremony in those days as the Aztect State fought for its very survival. Much of the Ceremonial Shit came later, and only were done to already defeated peoples.

And the fucking Iron advantage of Zulus is too small anyway. Its not as if they were walking around encased in metal armor or had metal sword.

Zulus are casuals m8. The fact that they overwhelmed an idiotic British regiment with greater numbers doesn't mean they're the greatest warriors among the "le primitives." Hell a bunch of civilian Dutchmen destroyed them earlier."

>>41644230
>Who wins
The Queen.

>>41644791
>I'll block arrows with my shield!
Yeah, about that. Shields weren't used as an anti-arrow measure, so much as they were for melee combat. You might as well say that they'll just catch the dart with their bare hand, zuluboo.

>>41644774
>774
shaka was dead, murdered by his half brother, before britbongs ever set foot in their land

>>41644877
>I'm just saying they will have a hard fucking time with the Aztecs.

You're saying they'd have a harder time with a pre-gunpowder force of troops that got driven practically to extinction full centuries before their own interactions with even more advanced post-gunpowder troops?

Sorry man, I'm having a hard time buying into the reasoning on that one. Let's just say that each force understands the terrain as well as the other one - no more, and no less. Do you really think that Zulu warriors, in equal numbers, would lose to Aztecs? I know I'm sounding pedagogical here, but you're talking about Space Marines vs. Jannissaries.

>>41644859

Zulus wield steel one hand thrusting spears not katanas.

Steel weapons are superior to obsidian blades period.

It isn't nice to call people names.

You guys are all talking about the physical attributes and what not, is anyone going to factor in Lord Chelmsford criminally incompetent underestimation of Zulu forces which lead to many of the early british defeats in the war?

>>41644858
Nevertheless, it's widely known that Atlatls have superior penetrative power to most bows short of windlass cocked crosbows.

The projectiles are halfway between an arrow and a javelin in size, and can be thrown significantly further than a javelin.

I'm a Zuluboo tbh, I still theink they'd probably beat the Aztecs, but the atlatl isn't something that you want to hide behind a hide shield to escape from.

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>>41644791
>Depends on whether you think aztec arrowheads would penetrate Zulu shields, I guess. I'm thinking not.

Zulu shields was just dry leather covering a parrying parrying staff. Look up traditional Zulu stickfighting on how it works. It's good to defend against a thrown spears and stones but thats it.

Meanwhile the Aztecs had to use wooden mantlets and wickerwood shields covered in leather to survive the initial skirmishing.

An Atl Atl is no joke, man.

>>41644956
>I'm a Zuluboo tbh, I still theink they'd probably beat the Aztecs, but the atlatl isn't something that you want to hide behind a hide shield to escape from.

Agree with this anon on all counts. Zulu would win the war, but atlatls would take their toll on Zulu forces. That said, if they can take down men with rifles, they can easily take down men with atlatls.

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>>41644915
I read somewhere that Shaka was planning on inviting European advisers into Zululand to modernize their culture.

Makes you wonder what it would be like if they pulled a Meiji

>>41644230
>40,000 wetbacks vs 40,000 nignogs
>outcome is between 40,000 and 80,000 casualities
>who wins?
mankind

People do realize that Aztecs would be much less useless in the eventual melee conflict than the British troops the Zulus occasionally butchered? Like, if you are hyping up the Zulu ability to fight and basing it purely off their victories over a regiment of British soldiers, why are you not considering the Zulu losing record against other non-industrialized groups?

>>41644664
Those helmets look like Power Ranger masks with the faces exposed...

>>41644981

The world would probably be a happier but probably more polluted one.

The same could be said about "what if USSR and communist China had never existed"? The east would be richer overall and everyone would be happier, but likely the world would be more polluted.

Overall a lot of the problems in modern day politics are a direct result of the the Cold War and the divide in rich and poor countries.

>>41645001
Aztec power-rangers would be bomb as fuck

>Jaguar Zord
>Turkey Zord
>Eagle Zord
>Snake Zord
>Couatl Zord

All powered by buckets and buckets of human blood.

>>41644988
>Zulu losing record against other non-industrialized groups?
Sooo, none?

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>>41644942
>Zulus.
>Gunpowder civilization.
Yeah, they had whole musket lines. Sure.

And how are the Zulus more advanced, hm? The only thing "advanced" about them is Metal Working but they only ever employed them in tiny spearheads. Anything else was pretty nomadic pastoral. They lived in small scattered populations in semi-permanent stick huts enclosures called Kraals by the Dutch, relied on 0 agriculture, had an informal government centered around a chief, no writing, no bureaucracy, basically everything that the Aztecs weren't.

Aztecs would look at the Zulus and they'll write them off as something similar to those Northern Tribes like the ancestors of the Apaches that chased roaming animals around. Which they called Barbarian.

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>>41645041
...metal as fuck

>Giant Aztec Mecha that shoots gore at evil cosmic star god hermaphrodites with rattlesnake penises

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>>41645053
>Tiny spearheads

Pretty good size actually, long enough to chop and cut with, as well as thrust.

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>>41644942
>I know I'm sounding pedagogical here, but you're talking about Space Marines vs. Jannissaries.
>Zulus
>THAT ADVANCED
This thread has gone nuts. The Spaniards and the Aztecs would be Space Marine and Janissaries. Sure.

Zulus are not THAT advanced to merit being the Space Marine Party in a conflict between them and the Aztecs. Holy fucking shit. Abandoning thread.

>>41645053
>relied on 0 agriculture
The Zulus were farmers. Pretty much all the bantu were.

Part of the reason they suffered under Shaka was when he banned the sowing of crops in a fit of madness.

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>>41644230

>>41645085
Zulu officers used axes.

>>41645077
>dat face
>"Sword? No, I'm reaching for the cock."
>"Jaguar gotta get his trophy."

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>>41644988
Yes, people wearing armor and wooden shields with a spear, an axe/mace/or edged/unedged club, and trained to engage people in CQC with above weapons and even knew how to wound people to leave them barely alive for sacrifice are so not prepared for melee. Absolutely right

>>41645136
>the ancestor of Bueno Excellente

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>>41645118
Aye, I've read King Solomon's mines, I remember in the Zulu-related fictional kingdom of Kukuanaland, the officers of the army carry axes, and the soldiery operate as Impis, with the addition of central-African inspired heavy throwing-knives, throwing-knives aren't usually a particularly effective battlefield weapon in any sense, but some of these look more like axes to be. . . Frank Little throwing-axe humour.

Zulus.

They're far more imposing in stature than any Meso-American fighter.

Talking about grorious Zuru warrior is kinda shit when you're comparing the bulk of their victories which were melee-trained fighters successfully ambushing ranged-trained soldiers into positions they were neither prepared nor trained for. Melee unit beats ranged unit at melee. Surprise. Aztec vs Zulu, however, is melee vs melee with a engineering advantage for the Aztec and a conditioning advantage for the Zulu.

>>41645157
Why are you sarcastically arguing with someone on your side of the discussion? Anon's only point that holds up in that post is that the Aztecs were actually trained for primarily CQC with some in-built skirmishing.

>>41644570
Not even a question. Your average legionary, as a physical warrior, was totally outclassed by your garden-variety German barbarian, and they pale in comparison to the Impis when it comes to training.

Rome won through logistics, engineering, and discipline, not physical strength.

>>41645289
True. Zulus weren't 7 foot NBA beasts on average. But they WERE widely acknowledged as some of the tallest people in southern Africa (much of that due to drinking milk for most meals).

Meanwhile corn eating Aztecs were a bit shorter than their Spanish counterparts.

>>41645341

This is some high quality bait right here

>>41645101
>Just some guys with hide shields and spears with metal instead of stone
>Space Marines
It wasn't even worth responding to, anon.

>>41644230
Zulus if they attack at night.

>>41645447

>>41644230
Zulus. They have guns.

>>41645477
Was literally just about to post this

>>41645341
>discussion of Con
>W-WELL YOU AREN'T AS RIPPED AS AHNOLD, PEDERAST!

>>41644538
>>I watch a lot of interracial porn so I know what I'm talking about
Get fucked, africaboo.

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>>41645447
You reminded me of this one Germanic tribe who would paint themselves pitch black and then attack on the night of the new moon, screaming like creatures from hell

>>41645534
Why are /tv/ and /pol/ so obsessed with black people sexually?

I can't comprehend what motivates someone to immediately think about that whenever anything relating to blacks in mentioned.

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>>41645477
>Zulus. They have guns.
and some pretty impressive skill with forging iron as well.

>>41644703
This. South Africa was rife with simpletons. All the OG niggas lived further north.

>>41645447
>Zulus if they attack at night.
I was gonna say that.

>>41645555
I'm not, I just see how some people idolize blacks for whatever reason. The Zulu were such a footnote in history that it's not even funny. It's like the guy narrating the end of Carthage documentary. He's not objective and takes sides immediately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpaR6Sx3ZRg

Aztecs win because their gods are sick nasty. Zulus probably have some faggy spirit shit going on. No contest.

>>41645610
>I'm not
You literally just started ranting about interracial porn the second he described a segment of zulu history.

That's obsession.

FFS nobody was "idolizing blacks".

Unless everyone who knows anything about Vikings is "idolizing whites".

You're just a pervert.

>>41645168
>Buenatl Excellentlatl

>>41645635
Trudat. How many other cultures have their primary water god also be the god of flaying corpses, who was honored by flensing several still-living prisons and then dressing his statues in human skins while the priests would likewise wear skinsuits, ripping out of them in a rebirth ritual after the skin had begun to rot?

>>41645643
>Unless everyone who knows anything about Vikings is "idolizing whites".

Not that Anon, but they usually are.

>>41645635
I dunno, the Zulu believed in (and still do) a shapeshifting rapist midget koala thing.

And in a race of shapeshifting reptilian monsters who can only be noticed in human form by their prehensile tails with mouths at the end for sucking milk.

>>41645679
>And in a race of shapeshifting reptilian monsters who can only be noticed in human form by their prehensile tails with mouths at the end for sucking milk.
>who can only be noticed in human form by a massive and obvious giveaway
Seriously.

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>>41645666
Didn't he also demand the blood of screaming and bitterly crying children for a good harvest?

The priests would beat the kids and rip out their fingernails to guarantee that

>>41645678
Get outta town man.

Vikings are cool, not everybody who digs that shit is a shitposting stormfaggot with cooky ideas about a Nordic Aryan Master-Race.

>>41645700
You could say the same for Kitsune

>>41645725
They're retarded too.
Same with Huldra.

>>41645643
Then why are the Zulu wanked over? They didn't do shit beyond fighting the British. At least the Scandinavians contributed to the rest of the world, even while being cunts as vikings.

>>41645536
The Harii, I believe.

Rolled 13 (1d100)

>>41645534
You're projecting so hard I'm going to have to make a cover save.

Luckily it's a routine check with a +20 bonus

>>41645780
>13
Ugh, y' got me.

*ded*

>>41645780
So, roll over or roll under system?

>>41645706
Ohp, my apologies. We actually got swapped around. The God of Children's Tears was the Rain God, Tlaloc. The God of Flayed Skins was the Harvest God, Xipe Totec.

>>41645736
>Then why are the Zulu wanked over?
Because they're interesting?

You clearly don't like them, it's futile to ask why others do

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Dosn't matter who wins neither would stand against big G and his posse.

>>41645798
Roll over, we're clearly playing Dark Heresy with this guy.

>>41645741
"As for the Harii, quite apart from their strength, which exceeds that of the other tribes I have just listed, they pander to their innate savagery by skill and timing: with black shields and painted bodies, they choose dark nights to fight, and by means of terror and shadow of a ghostly army they cause panic, since no enemy can bear a sight so unexpected and hellish; in every battle the eyes are the first to be conquered."

>>41645806
There are much more interesting African civilizations. The Zulu's were in a movie, so they get points for that and nothing else.

>>41645836
Not really. A tercio would stomp them flat.

The big deal with the Mongols was their huge attacks on morale (genocide does that) and their glorious political manoeuvring.

>>41645886
No, they're interesting as fuck. They're the archetypal evil empire- they killed generals that failed them, they had an even larger amount of backstabbing than the Byzzies, they invited people to peace meetings and then murdered them- they're awesome.

>>41644230
The Aztec gods. They care not from where it flows.

>>41645886
I'm not arguing that

People seem to forget that contributing factors to the Aztec loss against the conquistadors were massive disease outbreaks and the small matter of Cortez having the backing of at least 30.000 fighters from neighbouring city-states tired of Aztec rule.

The conquistadors didn't just steam-roll the entire Aztec civilization on their own - the mass die-off from infection and in-fighting were a pretty major factor.

So my guess is the Aztecs. They've got formation warfare, skill and surprisingly good equipment ( atl atl's ain't no joke, actually good cloth armor ). Zulu fighters are good, no doubt, but the British leadership at the time was laughably incompetent, and once a musket wielding force gets bogged down in a proper melee they're kinda fucked without a square or such. Aztecs don't have that issue, plus, their bitching feather head dresses.

>>41645536
harii?

100 brock lesnara vs 10 male silver back gorillas
who wins?

>>41645856
Noice quotation, is that Tacitus?

>>41645886
Unfortunately Exposure = interest

Bantu cultures alone are diverse and interesting, the Shona for instance.

I've been interested in them since I discovered how cool EA Machaka is in Dominions 4

>>41646012
Shame how boring MA machaka is.

>>41644230
Probably the Zulu. They had iron weapons, and excellent tactics.

>>41645909
>Tercios
>600 years later military unit, with combined arms
>Stomp them flat

No shit, Sherlock

>>41644703
I blame the Civ series. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHAAAAAAAKA

>>41646030
Amen brother.

>>41645964
Do people "seem to forget", or do you just insist on flaunting your knowledge every possible chance you get?

>>41644703
It's because Shaka Zulu's military reforms were uncannily similar to Gaius Marius's. When tractors start unconsciously emulating Rome, it sets off warning sirens in the minds of Europeans.

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>>41645964
>A fight breaks out between the Zulu and Aztec delegations over who has the snazziest feathered headpieces

>>41646038
>600 years later
U w0t m8?

Also, do you think that tactics just get better over time? They don't. Pike blocks aren't new. It's just that people weren't using them much at that time, which is one of the (many) reasons why the Mongols were so successful.

There were other bug steppe warlords, but they often weren't successful because of the counter-Mongol tactics people like the Chinese used, which included pike blocks (kind of).

>>41646097
Oh snap! I'm mistaken, there's snazzy feathers on all sides!

>>41646055
Both. Obviously. Which is good for me since I get to show off.

Fun fact, there's actual surprising similatiry between Aztec and Zulu. High population density lead to warfare and death, except in one case you got the flower wars and human sacrifice and in the other just wars and a rapidly growing empire.

>>41646012
>>41646030
And on this day I found other Dominions players on /tg/

>>41645964
Aztecs had little concept of actual warfare.

Zulus, on the other hand, lived on it. And what makes you think they didn't have formations? They're famous for it. And spears are always better than swords and clubs.

>>41646030
They're my favourite EA faction. They're just shit for everything else, though.

>>41646164
It's literally as /tg/ as you can get without actual monstergirl porn in it. And there's a whole /vg/ general for it, it's quite a popular game series.

>>41644604

The Spanish Armada was a monument to corruption. Even if it had been untouched by the storm the Brits had faster, more maneuverable ships that weren't falling apart at the seams.

>>41646121
The Hungarians repelled the second Mongol invasion without pikes. The chief reason they had been trashed in the first war was that their forts were all made of mud and dirt, and their cavalry still fought in the Alan and Magyar style.

When the Mongols came around the second time, Hungary was made of stone and had actual knights, and they beat the shit out of them. I think the ability of the Mongols to defeat such armies was not due to the superiority of their troops, but rather that their enemies kept falling for the feigned retreat. When the Mamluks figured it out, they pulled Ain Jalut and slaughtered a million of the horsefuckers. When the Hungarians figured it out, they slapped the Mongols so hard the battle didn't even get a name.

Whoever wins, they both lose.

>>41646211
The Mongols seem like a guy who jumps into an ongoing fight and sucker punches a guy who didn't know he was there, then jerks off about how awesome he is. The second time he tries that he gets fucked up so bad that he doesn't attempt it again.

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>>41646165
Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. First, Shaka Zulu's reforms reduced the length of the fighting spear to the point where it was only like two feet long. At that point you're really not talking about a spear at all, but a sword.

Which is good, because that's what the Romans did, and they rekt spears, clubs, bows, basically everything with the gladius. A short thrusting sword, a javelin and a large shield. That's a winning combination. The chief difference I would say is that the Zulus wore no armor, and relied more on mobility.

So I guess the real question is, could a bunch of naked Romans beat the Aztecs?

>>41646121
>600
Ok, more like 400 years, my bad

Pike blocks aren't enough to hold a Mongol horse archer unit, you can't hit what you can't reach, and that thing is throwing arrows at you. One of the more successful tactics against mongol horses was to fire volley after volley of arrows. So, if they had to fight against an enemy that had gunpowder, and protected their musketeers with strong pike formations I'd say yes, Tercios have a good chance of defeating a mongol unit.

Without gunpowder? No way in hell. It's not just a factor-vs-factor, mongols were masters of combined arms, but gunpowder is something they wouldn't be prepared against.

>>41646165
Incorrect, Aztecs had lots and lots of actual experienxmce with warfare.

Spear formation superority though, yeah. But it was my understanding that the Zuly were so succesful because they basically hacked the ceremonial traditions, adopting a shorter spear and utilizing a specific tactic of out-flanking foes with split groups beating out the traditional skirmish style tactics. That doesn't work so well against established fornations with larger force concentrations.

>>41646255
>That's a winning combination
No. It's a combination that worked well at the time, in their geography, with their culture and their economy, and against their enemies.

And no, they couldn't. Unless they also had their gear except for armour, in which case of course they could. They had real wars, not flower wars.

>>41646270
You need pike blocks and ranged shit in combination, so the ranged shit does as you've described (basically attacking the mongols at a larger range than they can attack you) while the pikes protect the ranged shit.

Gunpowder isn't some magical death-to-everything-powder. It's just cheap and easy to use. Crossbows would work about as well, and bows are better- but they take waaay longer to train with.

You're also aware that the Mongols were famous for their usage of gunpowder, right? They're the faggots that *brought* it to Europe. I don't think they'd exactly be surprised by it.

>>41644566
>Zulu beat British forces in a number of battles
in a 10 to 1 fight, on their land

>>41646315
>>outnumbering the enemy
How else do you expect blacks to fight?

>>41646164
>>41646030

Steam me if you want some friendly MP games, I'd like to take a crack at the multiplayer.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Yawningman/

>>41646314
They had real wars, that doesn't mean that they could've beaten another group who also had real wars, and also had superior equipment. Metal weapons are an enormously significant development in military technology, you can't just brush that aside like it doesn't mean anything.

>>41646363
The Aztecs had metal weapons? Never heard that one before.

>>41646350
I'm going to be in Mexico for the next 8 days but after that, I'd love to.

How come any kind of history discussion is just

>Well you see X
>You're wrong actually
>No u
>No u
>But in this isolated instance
>Yeah but no, not even
>ur a fag
>WEABOO
>ROMEABOO
>FJRHARJKLAWHRLKÖAJRNWFÖALWRKJN

>>41646380
I just realized that your post was so poorly written that I thought you were arguing on behalf of the Aztecs.

I'm not sorry, because you're an obtuse retard. What were you arguing against there?

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>>41646383
Noice.

>>41646314
The Roman way of fighting was pretty extensively fieldtested against a varity of foes and tactics.

>>41646363
When the difference is offset by superior tech in pretty much all other categories going to the Aztecs? Yes, you can.

Their cotton armor was adopted by the Spanish because it was so effective. Atlatl are nothing to fuck with and can better be seen as small arms equivalents of balista moreso than just tossing a spear. You're talking about a poison-coated three to four foot javelin that's coming at you near 100 mph. They didn't penetrate steel plate, but they were strong enough to punch straight through chain mail, leather gambesons, and anything below full steel plate that the Spanish fielded.

>>41646408
>Could a bunch of naked Romans defeat Aztecs?
>No, they couldn't
>poorly written

>>41646436
Effective, or easier to wear?

>>41646475
Effective. The shit blocks arrows and spears as effectively as effectively as steel breastplate. Like, as much as people may mock the lack of metalworking, it led to the natives being almost hilariously effective with their technology. Cotton armor was actually interwoven layers of cloth and leather, with the resulting fabric two fingers thick and also lighter, cooler, and more flexible. The Spanish abandoned using steel plate pretty quickly on, and their colonial troops were almost entirely fielded with native quilted armor over metal.

Incans also had some pretty dope shit. Suspensions bridges with vegetable fiber cords, and boats made out of woven reeds could travel hundreds of miles into the open ocean, carried 20 men, and were near fifty feet long.

>>41646557
>The shit blocks arrows and spears as effectively as effectively as steel breastplate.
Y'know, I'm not quite sure I believe that.

>>41646363
Metal weapons are important, yes.

But metal weapons actually aren't a deciding factor. Being hit with a macahuilit of wood and obsidian will kill you just as dead as being hit with a metal blade.

Bronze weapons are actually better than iron weapons. They're more resilient, easier to make, less brittle and in some alloys retain a sharper edge. Obsidian shards can get ridicolously sharp. Quilted cloth can be as effective as mail. The Chinese ( or Koreans? ) had paper armor that was on par with actual metal.

But Iron, once you have the forging technique down, is more abundant than the neccesary components of most of the above. That's really important if you're, say, Romans and mass produce cast iron armor on an industrial scale. It's less of a deciding factor if you're just making spearheads and daggers, and even less so if you're capped at 30.000 fighters. Iron working would allow you to field more fighters because you can make more weapons, but that's not workable in this scenario.

>>41646606
http://heatherpringle.com/2010/01/12/cloth-a-body-armor-of-choice/

For just one short intro. Probably not completely on par with steel, but up there.

>>41646606
It's not just Aztecs, either. Shows up in the Classical world where it dominated. Though like Greek Fire, the secrets of it are relatively unknown.

>>41646389
because /tg/ is fucking retarded. and just like most retards they insist they know exactly what they are talking about, and proceed to spit up nonsense until the thread dies. /tg/ doesn't know shit about history.

>>41644646
>Nigga the Zulu warriors were forced to stop wearing sandals by Shaka and run over 50 miles per day.
My next character will be a Not Zulu warrior.

What's the best way to make a high mobility warrior (skirmisher?) inna3.5?

>>41644230
Zulus.

Aztecs were civilized (leaving moral judgements by the door) and bullied small tribes.

Zulus were pretty much savages that managed to put up a good fight against a modern era army with cavemen-tier technology, even if they lost in the end.

>>41646606
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ERSx1o8wwk

just so you all know, not that me saying this will matter you will all continue to be retarded forever, the aztecs had metal working. most american civilizations did.

>>41646664
Metal weapons are a big step up over stone and wood because they don't break as easily, and can hold an edge better. Iron might be at the bottom of the hierarchy of metal arms, but they're still a big step up over wood and stone.

>>41644640
If you swallow the propoganda of dictators you'd believe North Koreas army is supermen too.

Instead of midgets whose average height has now dropped to 5'1

>>41644230
Depends on how edgy you want your setting to be.

>>41646786
>the aztecs had metal working
I recall seeing jewelry that shows as much, but what stopped them from adopting metal weapons?

>>41646825
>Instead of midgets whose average height has now dropped to 5'1
>5'1
laughing south Korean girls

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>>41646557
>The shit blocks arrows and spears as effectively as effectively as steel breastplate

Steel breastplates were often bulletproof. I'm sure this stuff was plenty effective, but comparing it to steel is a ludicrous proposition. Not that it matters, since the alternative is wearing nothing.

>>41646606
To be fair, I wouldn't have believed that samurai made themselves immune to arrows by wearing silk parachutes, but they did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B_6BU7SYf8

>>41646812

Yeah, basically what will happen is that the 40k guys will clash start going one for one.

When only 1k remain on each side, the guys without metal armor has broken their shit while the guys with metal weapons still have their perfectly functional weapons left.

>>41646709
>>41646749
>>41646767
>>41646848
My trouble is believing it was better than steel, not that it was usable.

>>41646830
I think they were just coming into the bronze age at the time, but hadn't quite worked it out yet. Thus their primary expertise would be in smelting copper.

At that point, you might really be better off with a club.

>>41646846
You have cloth armor approximately an inch and a half thick. An arrowhead sinks in approximately half an inch. Congratulations, you are also bulletproof yet aren't wearing heavy, hot armor.

>>41646876
As effective as steel, yet without the downsides that steel armor encounters in the Central and South American climate.

>>41644230

Warfare isn't just like two teams lining up across from one another on a field and running at each other. The goal isn't to "kill all tha enemiez, LOL," but to obtain a set of objectives. So these questions of "who would win between ____ and ____" are almost always stupid, since they ignore the circumstances of the conflict, or even of a single battle, which are a lot more important than "whoz da mostest badazz?"

But... assuming that there is a conflict between a hypothetical Zulu society and a hypothetical Aztec society where each is able to muster comparable amounts of men, (and ignoring the effect of Old Word diseases), I'd go with the Aztecs. The Zulu have the advantage of iron weapons, as well as perhaps a superior martial ethos due to the influence of Shaka and by being a true tribal society rather than the more urbanized Aztects- though the Aztecs themselves were not yet wholly decadent and still certainly had a aristocratic warrior elite which maintained older martial traditions, (I'm assuming we're talking about c. 16th century Aztecs, of course). But this "advantage" is also why the Aztects would win: an excellent analogue would be late Republican Rome vs the Gallic tribes. No reputable Roman commentator would deny that the Gauls had a superior "warrior spirit," but that's not enough to overcome a disparity in logistics, organization, and formalized military tactical theory. The Aztecs had all of these advantages, and would utilize a combined-arms force against the Zulu, who were essentially still all just medium spearmen.

>>41646915
>cloth armor approximately an inch and a half thick
>not extremely heavy and hot

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>>41646915
Yeah, instead you're wearing light, hot armor that could be cut through by a sword. They had gambesons in Europe too, there's a reason they wore heavier armor over them.

>>41646956
[continued]

...I wouldn't say it's a 100% victory, though, as there are plenty of examples of more primitive peoples overcoming civilized opponents- the Aztecs themselves were relative "primitives" compared to the other Mesoamerican peoples inhabiting the Valley of Mexico when they migrated southwards from northern Mexico a few centuries prior to the Spanish conquest.

The poster who said the Aztecs only practiced "ceremonial warfare" is an idiot. If they did, then they would never have been able to establish or maintain their dominance over other Mexican peoples. The guy who said the Zulu were hunter-gatherers is an even bigger idiot- they were absolutely agriculturalists, which was the entire point of the Bantu migrations into southern Africa of which the Zulu were part.

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>>41645001
Thats because they are

>>41646830
the amount of metal available to them wasn't high enough to warrant making armor, and without metal armor you dont particularly need metal weapons.

that said, the tlingit farther north used heavy wooden armor and iron weapons both of which got around via trade. i would think that had the spanish showed up later iron weaponry would have gotten used a lot more.

>>41646957
>cotton
>fabrics that breathe

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>>41646957
Yeah, Christ. I couldn't even wear an overshirt in Ottawa, let alone an inch and a half thick cloth vest. I'm pretty sure someone would melt in South America/Africa with that on.

>>41647007
You probably aren't wearing linen. There's a reason we wear that shit in the tropics.

>>41644950
you are both retarded, and the native americans are proof better technology doesn't mean shit unless its an absurd gap

>>41647063
Probably. I'm from the NWT so humidity was unknown to me up until I moved to Ottawa.

>>41647135
Not gonna lie, I find it kind of cute when Canadians complain about Canadian heat. In the American Southeast, we deal with summers that are 100 degrees with 100% humidity that rarely actually turns to rain. Heat index often above 110, and due to the humidity the heat only slides down to a slightly-more-comfortable 85 or so at night.

>>41647176
Meanwhile, it's the same with the cold. Or for me, being Britbong, rain.

Who'd have guessed shit's relative.

I honestly don't see what difference iron is going to make. They're not going to be clanging macuahuitls against iron spear tips, they're going to be swinging at the Zulu's bare, well-oiled chests with those things. Obsidian is more than enough to carve the shit out of someone.
The question isn't iron vs. obsidian, it's iron vs.cloth armor and hide shields.

>>41647176
It's the same with Americans and the cold. I work in a hotel and when tourists come up here, I get a lot of complaining about the cold outside. Might be -30C or -40C, but I don't really notice unless the wind is fucking crazy.

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>>41644566
>I literally don't know about the mapuche

>>41647176
I grew up in Istanbul.

Imagine that but in a city of 15 million.

Shit sucks, nobody even leaves the house during the day any more.

No wonder the most vicous peoples always come from the hot as balls, sweaty places

>>41647176
Well, actually, the Southeast's winters are giga-nigga, too. The humidity sticks around and so while the actual temperature is relatively modest at 15-20 degrees at night, 30-40 during most days, the ultra-humid air seeps that cold into whatever fabric you're trying to protect yourself with. So even without wind, you freeze your nuts off.

I know a family from Michigan and another from New York that actually think our winters are colder than theirs, if only because no matter how many coats, mittens, or earmuffs you put on, it will not help you much. And you add to it the fact that we don't get much to any snow, you lose the fun part of freezing winters. Instead, we just get ice storms most of the time. And then because we might get snow once every few years, when we do get it -- there were two snowstorms last year where I'm at -- everyone loses their goddamn minds. We don't know how to drive, we don't know how to buy groceries, and a county will very often have maybe three snowplows and no salt.

>>41647348
Oh, fuck. I'm going there the day after tomorrow. I-is that going to be fine?

I'll mostly be being a historyfag looking at badass Ottoman/Byzzie/Roman shit indoors. Topkapi, Hagia Sophia, cisternes, all that shit. S-so it should be air conditioned...right?

>>41647360
Derp, mislinked to >>41647195 and >>41647290

Seriously, the weather of North Alabama is purely designed to cause suffering. And then you top it all off with occasional flooding and the fact that while out west may have the most numerous tornadoes, ours are the most damaging on average of anywhere in the US.

>>41647402
At least you're near civilization. Three years ago one of the communication towers was knocked down during a storm and we were completely cut off from the rest of Canada for nearly four days. I had 20 dollars in my wallet, thankfully the place I worked at had a restaurant where I could charge meals to my tab. Everyone was losing their minds until the grocery store started giving bills so they could feed their chilrens.

>>41647400
Inside you'll be fine. The big old buildings are usually cool inside anyway.

It's under 30c at the moment anyway, feels super cool in comparison.

There's a cafe near me that has a pedobear doodle on the sign, also. Surprising 4chan presence in general.

>>41644230
White people

>>41647196
In this case it would be a stalemate as obsidian will tear a horrible ruin across flesh while even an iron point will easily pierce cloth armor.

The Iklwa, on the other hand, is faster than the Macuahuitl and slightly longer so it's likely to get it's hit in first. Since the macuahuitl is basically a wooden club with razor blades on it I doubt it has the agility to parry iklwa thrusts.

>>41647502
>Inside you'll be fine. The big old buildings are usually cool inside anyway.
That's what I was thinking.
>It's under 30C anyway
Oh, well, that's just normal where I'm from (Britbong).

All right, looks like I'll be fine to check out those awesome Hungarian swords. Thanks anon. Is it true that every Kebab nerd is obligated to sing the Mount and Blade theme tune whenever someone hands them a block of butter?

>>41644566
>Still, it's probably the best track record of any indigenous army against an invading colonial force.
No, the best track records were the ones where the indigenous army beat the invaders. You never think of those since those areas never became colonies.

>>41647570
>>M&B: Bannerlord
>>turning into vaporware
;_;

>>41647583
What were those?

Thailand come to mind, but they were never invaded due to clever politicking ("Eyy, white man, u want invade but how instead I gib u 12yo asian pussy whenever u liek eh? eheh stupid white man now I still have the 11yo pussy")

>>41647551
aztecs used mostly spears and clubs though. spears much longer than an iklwa.

>>41644800
>okay, so they haven't got
>> the best track record of any indigenous army against an invading colonial force.
>but instead the best track record against a committed assault from an industrialized nation.
Nah, that's Vietnam

>>41647612
Inuit come to mind. Although they never really fought battles against colonial powers, they still managed to avoid the genocide that faced many native populations by living in harsh environments that few Europeans would want or need to colonize to a large extent. They still exist, most of Northern Canada and Greenland's population is still Inuit.

>>41644829
If your nation is so weak and dickless that its invasion can be defeated forever by a little rainstorm, then you were never that tough.

History agrees, too, since the Spanish could barely kick out a few muds from their own country and China never won a war that wasn't against itself, Vietnam, or Korea.

>>41644230
Since we mostly deal in fantasy here, can we just say the Aztecs win but shear "Not being as boring looking"?

>>41647828
>we
not everyone here is a pleb

>>41646757
>What's the best way to make a high mobility warrior (skirmisher?) inna3.5?

Take your 3.5 books, open a dumpster, throw them in, and play a DEX-based battlemaster in 5e instead.

>>41645053
The iklwa, the spear famously invented by Shaka that was used by the Zulus during the most successful points in the history of the Zulu empire was a short hafted, long bladed weapon intended for thrusting in close quarters. The small tipped spears were thrown weapons.

>>41645216
It's like the traditional concept of an effective weapon to these people was the one with the most possible blades and hookey bits.

>>41644981
Nothing because the Zulu lacked the population and literacy base to be anything more than a sphereling of whoever modernized them. Now if the Sokohto Calpihate pulled a Meiji we'd be getting somewhere. At least they'd have the population to be frightening. Imagine a Nigeria with the development of say Great Britain. Terrifying.

>>41647643
However, those spears didn't have metal so they'd have issues penetrating even cowhide shields. This goes double for the thrown and atl-atl launched spears since that's exactly what the Zulu's fighting style was designed to counter.

>>41647583
>No, the best track records were the ones where the indigenous army beat the invaders.
>>41647797
>Inuit come to mind. Although they never really fought battles against colonial powers,
Jesus do you even think before you post?

>>41647797
Most of the population? You know there's a tonne of White people up here. The native population in Canada is extremely low.

>>41648060
They're throwing knives/axes. They don't work as well if they're mostly handle

>>4164461
You obviously never shot a snowball at someone in summer.

>>41648261
That's not me.

I was thinking more like Ethiopia, China, Greece (when invaded by the Persians) and so on

>>41645136
cutting off the enemies' genitals and taking them as trphies was pretty common among many primitive cultures actually

>>41644808
There are political reasons for the Aztec fall that have nothing to do with military tactics or equipment

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>>41646990
Wild force is more fitting.

>>41644664
>>41645053
>>41645157

What is that pajama armor made of? How is it made or dyed or what is it called? Especially the blue jackal one.

I can't get over how much I like this. It has enchanted me. I might be turning into an Aztecboo. Please help.

>>41646012
>>41646030

>fire up Dominions 4
>Read Machaka stuff

Goddamn, the more I read the factions stuff in Dominions the more I want to run some sort of hodge-podge setting with several of the nations.

Looking at the list for LA, I'm assuming that Machaka doesn't make it? Do they get absorbed into anything else?

>>41648636
Yeah, but jungle force looks cooler

>>41648809
Yep.

They're shit-tier in MA too.

>>41648765

>Aztecboo

Between some CKII games where I had vikings vs. Aztecs going on, and then my game where I managed to successfully pull off a Sunset Invasion achievement run, I'll admit to really wanting to try and come up with how the Aztec civilization would look like when it starts modernizing. Bonus points for competing with a large Scandinavian empire that sits atop a Lollard Italy and Germany. Maybe I just like trying to imagine how 'non-standard' cultures would have turned out if they managed to modernize and not get their shit slapped in.

>>41648809
No news on what happened to Machaka. Probably eaten by spiders.


I've so wanted to run a campaign in Ermor by telling my players it's mid-repubic fantasy not-rome where the egyptians are lizardmen. Then Kin-Breaker invades the surface world in the second session and SHIT GOES NUTS!

>>41648877
Do we know what inventions the aztecs found? How different was their early warriors to their late ones?

Knowing that alongside knowing their trade routes we could probably work out where they'd get new tech from and what it would look like.

>>41646097
>>41646133
So the reason for the fight is over who has the snazziest feathered headdresses? I can live with that.

>>41644230
Aztecs because no niggers

>>41644230

According to Civilization V, zulus.

the united states marines

>>41648943

Is that an offer of discussion or a general suggestion of how to work that out?

>>41648875

Having not really played enough dominions to know everything about the various factions, what makes them so shit tier? I've really only played MA Ulm, so I guess I could see them having a problem against HUGE ARMOR, and it looks like they lost their trample-elephants and lion guys, is that it or do they just suck compared to everybody else?

>>41649197
Honestly, they're just really boring. They lost everything that made them so fun for me, including their elephants (I FUCKING LOVE ELEPHANTS, GOD DAMN).

>>41646315
>in a 10 to 1 fight, on their land
>>41646324
>How else do you expect blacks to fight?

"Oh no black people can only win when they follow the advice of Sun Tzu."

Jesus Christ you faggots are pathetic. Every single successful white tactician or strategist has been so because he understood the best way to make sure he had an advantage when the lines actually met.

>>41646606
>Y'know, I'm not quite sure I believe that.

Note: Not the same thickness.

All armor is ~equally good at protection, because all armor is designed for the same goal: "When some faggot stabs me, it needs to not work out for him." If you're working in cloth, you need more, thicker, layers than in steel, but that just means you use more, thicker layers.

The advantages in steel armor are others: Doesn't rot, easier to fix (you can re-knit chain, not so with cut cloth) and so on.

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>>41647312

>>41646757
>What's the best way to make a high mobility warrior (skirmisher?) inna3.5?

Crusader 1
Sorcerer (Battle Variant) 4
Spell Sword 1
Abjurant Champion 3
Jade Phoenix Mage 10 (Jade Couatl Mage)
One last level in Abjurant Champion.

At level 20, you're at Base Attack Bonus 18, Caster Level 16 and Initiator Level 15. You can cast in Light Armor without penalty and your mobility is fucking magical. (Literally. Because if your solution to distance is "walking," you're not high mobility.)

>>41647400
>S-so it should be air conditioned...right?

HAHAHAhahahaHAAH oh God everybody point at the American, point at him and laugh.

No, I'll stop being mean and be useful: Nowhere in the world have I experienced as much AC as when I was visiting the states. People in other countries just deal with the heat. Wear a hat w/ a brim to keep it of your head, wear light linen clothing, preferably white, that covers your entire body. And to slightly assuage you: Big fuckoff stone buildings like e.g. Hagia Sophia are slightly colder inside than the street outside so even if when don't actually have AC, they feel refreshing to enter.

>>41649603
I'm Britbong you fuck. I even said so. We have basically no air con, for obvious reasons.

And cities that are hot, especially if they get a lot of tourists, are often air conditioned.

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>>41648376
pic related
>>41648261
They didn't fight, but they managed to avoid the fate that a lot of other native American cultures suffered.

>>41649651
Yeah I saw that later and felt stupid but OH WELL YOU SAW THE POST, too late to delete now.

RE: AC in big cities: Not compared to the US, which is where I thought you were from. An American would get a serious shock in Italy or France, much less in actual Istanbul.

>>41649665
Yeah, by living in a place the white man didn't care to colonize.

>>41649687
Yes, I've heard of the US propensity to use aircon. I would, as a Britbong, personally call Italian usage of aircon excessive.

Shit's relative.

>>41649665
Nunavut is horrific shithole that no one would ever willingly live in and is designed to basically be a native reservation the size of a territory
the Yukon is 75% white despite being "Inuit land" because it was a (relatively) desirable place to live because of the Klondike gold rush

>>41644748
>We're getting into apples and oranges territory here.

The thread started by comparing forces separated by 300 years and an ocean.

>>41646012
Tacitus' Germania.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arauco_War

For any still arguing most successful indigenous people.

>>41644703
lol, who are you fooling? The Zulu impis would utterly rape any of those.

>>41650837
The Mandinka and Ethiopians had chain mail, bows, swords, lances, and helmets

And the Ashanti/Dahomeans were swordsmen and riflemen.

Benin had superior organization and was used to skirmishes in the jungle.

>>41650931
Oh, and I forget cavalry too

>>41647612
Ethiopia managed to beat away Italy.

But then the italians came back with more firepower.

>>41644538
Well someone watched Extra Credits:Extra Histoy, Shaka Zulu

>>41644987
underrated post

>>41651077
Fuck EC.

Fuck everything about them, from their pretentious gaming non-advice, to their oversimplified dramatised Great Man-riddled "history".

>>41644230

Whites

>>41644950
>Zulus wield steel one hand thrusting spears not katanas
I believe the other guy was talking about using a steal weapon, even one of renown quality such as a katana, against a stone will result in undesirable results.

The quality of equipment matters, but as seen in most of history.
Unless the gap is mind boggling it makes little difference. Remember, unlike shitty fan fiction people don't jump from cannons to modern rifles.
My sword might last 100 battles and yours only last 2, but if you hit me before I hit you those other 99 battles won't mean much.

The fact is people with sharp rocks have killed people with much better equipment then them.
Assuming both these groups are knowledgeable in combat it comes to a question of who is leading them, and what they know.

>>41644602
Hey, Jugurtha, how'd Marius own your little bitches again? Oh, that's right, he trashed them in the field while Sulla took you captive.

>>41645116
/thread.

>>41651234
Old joke.

>>41647348
Like Baghdad. 135F in the shade and people sleeping on their rooftops at night because it's too goddamn hot indoors.

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>mfw history threads on /tg/

>>41645157
>Triple Alliance
he must be Italian

>>41644877
That british army also was supplied with the wrong ammo for their weapons making their rifles less than useful.

The next day 100 or so Brits fucked up the Zulu so bad they decided it wasn't worth the casualties. So Zulu < Brits imo

>>41649342
>being this triggered

It was just a dumb joke about gangbangers, you whinny cunt.

>>41651111
>pretentious gaming non-advice
It's not gamer advice, it's game designer advice.

If the Zulus have rifles, I'd give them the advantage. If not, Aztecs all the way. The Spanish managed to crush them because they had horses and rallied a whole lot of their enemies against them. If it's a 1:1 fight like this, Aztecs would wipe the floor with the Zulus.

>>41646966
This guy gets it

>>41644650
>we all know you haven't carried a dead ibex twenty feet, much less ten miles.

fuck you you don't know me

>>41647176
>100 degrees
How much is that in Canadian Degrees?

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I'm putting a Aztec-like civilization into my game.

However, I need something rather important. That is; I need ideas for what it is called.

Something to do with how colorful they are, but something like 'The Rainbow Empire' would be kind of silly. I'm open for more names. 'The Vibrant Empire' maybe?

>>41655350
"The Kingdom of [Seven/Many/whatever number sounds good] Colours"

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>>41644230
Europe

I believe my answer is self-explanitory.

>>41644566
Um, Ethiopia? like, they actually won the war against their colonial invaders, the Italians.

>>41655237

100F ~ 40C

Aztecs:
>sick hats
>legit weapons like the axtlytaxxtlsis and uatxechcmhtlauzta
>fucking mental
>pretty badass in CQC
>fucking crazy
Zulus
>mediocre hats
>metal
>bigger people
>are called zulus
>fucking crazy

I'm not sure but if I had to pick a side I'd say Aztecs because they were a bit more melee focused and all the slender spears and thin shields and swords with a billion hooks on them wouldn't hold up against rather practical clubs, swords armour and decent shields.


Also Aztec hats.

>>41655350
The Technicolor Empire

>>41656557
Winning a war against Italians is some kind of achievement now?

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>>41655350
The Iridescent Empire?

>>41654287
The Spaniards destroyed big armies of Natives of the area like the Tabascans and the Tlaxcalans without the help of the natives (apart of some porters vs teh Tlaxcalans), the later allied with the Aztecs after losing three big battles vs them. Armour, crossbows, swords and specially cavalry (it's ridiculous how OP cavalry was, in Otumba six horsemen broke the greatest army the Aztecs could field with all they allies), but it's true the Aztecs would wipe the floor with the Zulus, they had better armour, training, organization and logistics than the zulus, the only advantage the Zulus would have is iron/stell of the zulus weapons,but if the Zulus could trade for rifles and I think the Aztecs would too.

>>41657340
Also apparently beating the British in battle too.

>>41655350
The Nahua confederation.
Nahua is what the Aztecs/Tlaxcalans/Tabascans and lot's of those center american tribes talked.

>>41655350
Sunset Empire

>>41657973
Bloodfest empire.

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>>41657973

Wouldn't "Sunrise" Empire, or Dawn Empire be better?

Calling your Empire 'Sunset' implies it is going downhill, you know? I like the colors and how they match with the sky.

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>>41655445
>>41657295
>>41657546
>>41657918
>>41657973
>>41657986
>>41658268

I like 'The Shone'

Just strange and unusual enough to be a name but still has that ring to it relating to color or light.

>>41657918
That would only make sense if it took place on Earth though.

It would kind of be like:
>Hey, so who lives in the country next to the big forest full of elves and dragons?
>The Canadians.