>>81425934
yo let me let you in on some bee facts
1. Bees have a higher nerve cell density than most mammals and birds in their brains
2. Bees, at their current scale, are able to recall sources of food multi-generationally, tell time using mental reckoning like a human would, can identify distinct individuals, shapes, and patterns, and form friendships or animosity with these things
3. Bees fucking crash all the goddamn time. I swear, one of the greatest sources of wing erosion (the effective cause of most bee old age death), is just them bashing the fuck into things when they fuck up their landing.

Those are in no particular order and no greater or lesser importance than my other bee facts, but I figured I'd help out. And from the ones I have chosen, bees could theoretically make great allies, given the individual intelligence of each one, especially expressed on a larger scale. Assuming they don't immediately try to kill you, and assuming you are okay with being crashed into by dog-equivalents. They 100% crash into their buddies.

>>81426221
>Form frienship with bees
>They crash the fuck out of your village but build you a hospital

>>81426282
don't build windows

>>81426221
What about bumblebees?

>>81425934
All workers are females and they ignore all outside stimuli while collecting pollen because the focus on work so hard (both true fact, you can pet working bees and they do not give a shit because they are just to busy).

So, imma fuck it.

>>81426312
Lol. Goodbye forests.

Males would be total bros though.

>>81426312
Bumblebees tend to not clean their hives, instead preferring to build new ones when they get dirty.

In addition, they are even worse at flying than normal bees, crashing even more. However, they have specialized themselves so much into resistance to crashing that they are one of our major greenhouse pollinators. You see, honey bees kill themselves in greenhouses from hitting the walls. But bumblebees, as they are fucking made for bumbling, will survive repeated crashes into those same walls for extended periods of time, allowing proper pollination.

>>81426315
even when bees aren't busy you can still pet them, anon.
That's not them being too busy, they just don't mind being pet all that much. It's not exactly pleasant I'd argue, we're much too big to do it pleasantly, but they don't mind.

Just, you know, move like a tree and not an animal or the guard bees will sting you.

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>>81425934
Humans are an individualist hive species, tho. We're actually not that far from bees other than the fact we're significantly more decentralised and generalised. Considering we've only gone so far individual in modern times with massive effort by interested parties who wanted to sell individuals things, and considering that pendulum has beyond overswung and that and we'll likely see a major return to our normal levels of collectivism in the coming future... I thinkl you could very easily square the circle on that in either a fantasy or futurist setting depending on which you were aiming for.

Two hives of mammalian specialised-generalists/and insectoid hyper-specialists just gettin' along would be neat.
I'd also totally hug a beegirl or even just a dog/person sized bee

>>81426221
>form friendships or animosity
buuuuullshit

>>81427117
Bees are also highly trainable. Somehow.
Here's some that have been trained to move loads in exchange for sweets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC9aSP9x0xE

>>81427059
You could even if you wanted to worldbuild have the king of the humans (the patriarchal hive) and queen of the bees/beefolk (the matriarchal hive) married and working as a couple in some sort of joint kingdom. In a romantic or purely stately sorta way as opposed to a magical realm sorta way because they'd both obviously need concubines to carry on their genetic lineages. But, you could also have it that the concubines are just a means to an end and the royalty actually love each other, or, that they have a quiet partner they really prefer but the royal marriage is so symbolic and necessary that the stately insitution matters more than any monarchs personal feelings. I'm also sure it would change from monarch to monarch and you could write it as you saw fit.

But it's an interesting idea.

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>>81427160
>bees IRL move stuff in exchange for sweets
Hmmm.
>bee people get sugar from humans in exchange for honey/wax
>wax gets turned into multiple household necessities; honey gets turned into mead by humans
>visit orc civilization, give them some mead as an extension of peace
>they love the mead, and happen to have tons of prisoners they captured from other orc tribes
>they exchange the orc laborers for mead
>humans grow more sugar farms thanks to increased production as a result if more hands in the field
>tfw you just recreated the triangle trade
>tfw you know in a few centuries the orcs are going to start bitching, even though they're the ones who originally sold themselves out, and completely ignoring multiple successful civil rights movements

>>81427188
Insect race shouldn't even understand the concept of love beyond "that really weird companionship humans really like"

>>81427284
>shouldn't
Well, there's this crazy thing about fantasy you ought to know...

>>81427284
I mean, bees do understand individuals and do have fondness for people. I don't know if they feel love like we do or not, it's not like we can ask them but they definitely show affection/fondess for human individuals. They also can sense your emotional state. I don't know HOW they do this but 100% they do. This has been passed through my family as wisdom and I've seen it. I can walk up to a hive, with my bare hands scoop up my bees and set them down in my hat and then clean things up, or check hive health or the like. Meanwhile strangers who walk up to the hive all stressed and quickly get swarmed and attacked.

Also my bees are very much aware of the concept that I am not only a friend but that I serve a hive function. Again, I'm not entymologist with a focus on apiary studies but when the hive has gotten particularly dirty after a rain I can go there and they will excitedly buzz around me as I bring out a microfibre cloth and wipe things off. On hot days I've even had them land on parts of me and do the behaviour they do at the entrance to the hive which is to lock their feet on something and fan heat away. Is it a kindness to keep me cool in return for a kindness of me doing as much work in half an hour as a thousand bees would need a day to do? Is it because they assume I'm part of the hive overheating? I cannot definitely say how deep it is but they DO at the bare minimum recognise me separately from other humans and also make an effort to "tend" me.

t. Beekeeper.

>>81427336
Also this. Big ass bees will at minimum do what I described above. Beefolk are gonna be even further on the spectrum of sapience.

>>81427359
>On hot days I've even had them land on parts of me and do the behaviour they do at the entrance to the hive which is to lock their feet on something and fan heat away.
That's pretty cool.
Sadly I only have extensive experience with wasps, and getting scared shitless of violet carpenter bees. Those fuckers were harmless but sounded like death on wings to my child ears.

>>81427059
Nigga humans are a tribal species. We really don't care beyond our tribal group

>>81427269
Just leave the orcs in Orcfrica, anon.

>>81427474
>We construct domains of several major hives numbering in the hundreds of thousands to several million all cooperatively working together in a single unit
We were a tribal species (packs of tens-to-hundreds) we are now a hive species. And yes we generally only care about our hives, I only care about my hive, the africanised hives can stay in their domain because my hive is closed to new swarmings and I'll sting anybody who disagrees. My stingers are reuseable though. ;)

>>81427440
I've also had them pick dirt and bits of leaves and such off of me. Could be as simple as my hands being in the hive, and me being a part of the hive is dirty after a day on the farm. Could be another kindness for a kindness. It happens even when I'm not physically inside the hive so I tend to lean towards it at least being a pro-social behaviour with a trusted comrade. Same way your cat licks you or your chicken will preen you.

ON THAT NOTE, in another blow against the "hurr durr only mammal affection" my chickens are just as bad. Several of them follow me around. Many people argue this is because I feed them but I only feed them in the winter. For all of the warmer months their job is to earn their keep and eat every bug they can get their beaks on . I will only step in to feed if they are so successful they put themselves out of a job or if one of them gets sick. But I have one named claudette who, after she has eaten for the day, will spend the rest of the day being emotionally co-dependent. The only times she keeps her distance is from the hives. The rest of the day she'll either sleep next to my leg if I'm standing at a workbench, following me if I'm walking (I often just sling her under my left arm so she'll stop whining) or if I'm doing something that takes both hands on rough terrain she'll whine until I put her on my shoulder where she'll either sit and watch the day go by or set her head on my head and go to sleep.

Let the scientists explain why, but it happens.

>>81427269
Proving once more that Orcs are not human and should never be treated as such

>>81427602
>he thinks human hives are cooperative and not at their best mutualistic.

Humans care less the larger the group.

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>>81427359
I understand its fantasy, but there's no point in having an insect race that conveniently behaves exactly like humans. It makes them..I don't know how to describe it...pointless? Less special? Like you could literally switch them with a dworf hive mind and it would be the same. That's just my two cents, feel free to ignore and make your big titty bee waifus

>>81427701
I'm with you that they don't need to bee (eh, eh?) the same and need to have oddities. But affection and a basic range of emotions is already present in their mundane form so why would they not be present in the fantastic form? Bees have plenty of oddities you could model and without making them just big tiddy bee waifus (or odd bee waifus). Maybe make it so the drones are barely functioning extensions and only the queen has a real mind. Make it so even if the drones have some level of personality but it is extremely blunt and they all know their place as indirect extensions of the queen. Make their highest emotional nature still be very blunted, like "I quite enjoy your presence, Anon. I would would definitely rather you not die" as opposed to "Uwa, umu, i wuv u anon-kun pwease cuddle me OmO".
All I know about bees is interacting with hives of the insects and they definitely behave preferentially and even emotionally on a meta-level but how much of that is as a distributed organism and how much is that is as individuals? That's a whole wealth for you to theorise on and play with.

If you want an emotionless/preference-less/purely-logical race you can do that too, but the reality is bees aren't going to be your starting base.

>>81427692
I'm sorry to hear of your atomisation, anon.

>>81425934
Humans making large wooden structures for the bees to use to make hives, and the bees allowing them to harvest honey from some of said man made hive structures.

Kind of like we're doing now but without the need to smoke the shit out of them.

>>81425934
Imagine how huge the flora would be to accomodate giant bees as pollinators, and support their weight.

>>81427816
An alternative to smoking bees is to spray them with sugar water. This was used back during the invention of the box hives by langstroth, and I'm not actually sure why beekeepers stopped. My own reasoning is maybe it caused mold issues, or perhaps it encouraged robbing?
Or maybe it's a byproduct of honey law, where any sugar water getting into the honey renders it no longer legally honey.

>>81427816
You don't even HAVE to smoke hives permanently because after a number of bee (queen) generations you can just walk up to them and grab a rack and leave. Sometimes you can even if you're very calm and know how to behave walk up to random hives and remove them with only minimal smoke.

I only mind my own bees but if you wanna see a guy who is very good with wild bees check this out, https://www.youtube.com/user/JPthebeeman

>>81427912
>spraying with sugarwater
>mold issues.
I've never heard of the practice so I can't give an authoritive answer but mold/mildew/infestation is the scourge of a hive and why I keep them clean and dry after rains so I would imagine that plays a big part. Sugar-water in a hives structure would be a breeding ground for all kind of nastiness. Bees are good about being tidy and it rarely happens but if it does take root it's a death sentence.
>Robbing
I actually have a hunch that sister-hives (but ONLY sister-hives that have spawned off a shared lineage) talk to each other and coordinate so I'm not SURE if that would be the reason. Many beekeepers keep a cluster for the very reason of keeping robbing to a minimum. I once had a hive nearly catch on fire (long story) and the a lot of the honey from it got moved to neighboring hives. I cannot conclusively prove it wasn't opportunistic robbing but it is my good guess that it was a sororal assistance thing.

>Honey law
I eat my honey and give it to neighbors in barter for other stuff so I can't comment on that.

>>81428046
yeah, most beekeepers I talk to aren't exactly sure why the practice stopped, and often aren't even aware of it.
It's an ongoing historical mystery.

>>81425934
huge bees as pets is a fun and cute idea OP. but being that huge kind of wrecks their social system.

>>81427117
One year while working on a wildfire, I got saddled with pump duty. Pump duty pretty much boils down to being close enough to a mark 3 pump to start it, turn it back on when it inevitably fails for one of a million reasons, and shut it off when theyre done using the water. It boils down to a lot of time in one place while everyone else is doing the fun shit.

The pump I was managing was set in a pumpkin, a big orange plastic pool. At one point a big ol bee fell into the water and got stuck. So I reached in and scooped it out, and set it somewhere to dry out. After he dried out he started flying around me, settling onto my hand. I mixed him up a bit of sugar water on my palm. He stuck around, almost exclusively on my hand for most of the rest of that day.

My brain says
>Eh, probably just have some panic pheromones on my hand now from scoooping it out.

But my heart
my heart says he's my buddy now, an was thanking me.

>>81426221
>Bees have a higher nerve cell density than most mammals and birds in their brains

Christ, Mantids must be especially terrifying for bees then...

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>>81428295
Actually, to that anon who wanted the beepeople to not have feelings. Wouldnt mantids be the ideal insect for such a race? The female eats the male because it is most coldly calculated that the male (having fulfilled his purpose) become food to the female (who has not yet finished hers). I know nothing of mantids being anything other than nightmare fuel unfliching sociopaths.

Really as far as I know only bees have shown any sort of care, affection, partiallity or emotion in the entire insect kingdom so you could pretty much use any OTHER insect to do that with, right?

>>81428362
I think you may be over-lionizing the bee and undervaluing other bugs. And really, even rather simple insects can show things similar to affection, especially for food sources.
We have no way to prove this is not genuine affection, for a food source or no.

>>81426312
>>81426328
Bumblebees also have relatively extremely high body temperature because their wings have to flap at a much faster rate to stay in flight.
>ywn hug a person-sized, warm ball of floof that smells of flowers

>>81428362
It's not as terrible as people say. First, it doesn't always happen that the female eats the male. She only does that when she's particularly horny and hungry and it's not "calculated" as it often happens during the mating act. The male can keep copulating with the female even after decapitation (mantises love to eat your face off first) because the ganglia for the mating bits can run off on their own for a while. It's really just particularly passionate hickeys during sex.

>>81428362
I'm only partially learned, but Mantises have been shown to maintain relations to some degree. It's not really what one could call 'consideration' as it's on an instinctual degree (don't fuck with that bigger thing cause you might lose and it may eat you) but the male and female mantids are a perfect example. The male tends to move to mate when the female is eating, because a full mouth might be too busy to eat him afterwards. Males aren't 'done' after mating a female really. They don't wait to be eaten because they could mate other females. The female is just larger on average, and Mantids regard anything small enough to catch and pin as food, even other Mantids. Mantids simply have different programing. It seems sociopathic to humans due to the disconnect of an empathetic mind, but most predatory creatures think in terms of predator and prey. It takes years or regular or early contact for humans to bond with a lion or tiger, as an example, but these are also creatures who would probably tear you open for lunch if given the chance.

Interestingly, Mantis people would probably be clean freaks in their own right. Mantids clean themselves after every meal to ensure all of their parts are in optimal working condition. Even if the antennae weren't scuffed, they'll clean them. Weapon polishing and armor maintenance should be a consistent quirk for Mantis folk.

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>>81428362
I never said anything about bees not having feelings. What I posed was that certain topics may be complete and utter gibberish to them, and I gave the example of love, on one of the most human emotions out there.
I'd say it doesn't have to be a missing emotion, but rather a different interpretation. In my setting, there's a whole kingdom of bypedal cats, and the concept of pure (especially true love and shit like romantic novels) is quite bizarre them, since they see love in a different less personal manner than we, hoomans, do.
Mantids are cool tho! Absolute monsters.

>>81425934
>cleverly disguised bee movie thread

Y'all fell for it

>>81427912
They probably either stopped because of cost, or the sugar water made more stuff sticky.

>>81427269
>first thought is recreating IRL slavery but without sugarcane, cotton and tobacco
Anon, why? The bees just want to add to the world, not take away

>>81425934
Considering that humans and bees have already demonstrated functional symbiosis, I can only imagine that larger, smarter bees would get along just fine. It helps a lot that we don't really compete for resources: the things that bees care about and the things that humans care about have minimal overlap.

I imagine that the ideal human/bee city would be one with fairly short buildings (not a lot of very tall buildings) with rooftop gardens maintained by the humans. The rooftop gardens get used to grow vegetables, but also the flowers and other plants that the bees need. So the bees have a hive structure somewhere near the middle of the city, and the buzz about doing their bee duties visiting people's gardens for pollen and such.

The humans provide for the bees with the gardens, and provide security simply by existing and keeping away most predators. In return the bees trade some of their honey and wax, valuable goods, and also assist in the defense of the city should the need arise. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be in any hurry to attack a city where I might be swarmed by hundreds of dog-sized angry bees. One can only assume that, at that size, even a single bee sting is deadly.

Back on the subject of peacetime, I like to imagine that the bees also act as couriers. They know the whole layout of the city and can fly, so its common to just hand them a letter or a package and they will see it delivered during their travels, either personally or handing it off to other bees going the right direction.

Fun bee fact: bees like to get drunk, though they usually do so on accident. So have fun with that prompt.

>>81426328
>Bumblebees are just big fat NEETs

>>81427769
Maybe you can make them empathic species, like this guy here explained.
>They also can sense your emotional state. I don't know HOW they do this but 100% they do. This has been passed through my family as wisdom and I've seen it. I can walk up to a hive, with my bare hands scoop up my bees and set them down in my hat and then clean things up, or check hive health or the like. Meanwhile strangers who walk up to the hive all stressed and quickly get swarmed and attacked.
Make them almost emotional mirrors, people who are irritable and snippy find them to be irritable as well, while those who are chill and calm describe them as being similar, ending up with a very varied view of them- ask ten different people what the bees are like and you'll get ten different answers.

From there, one of the ways I try to vary different races from just being humans with hats is how magic interacts with them (not the other way around, otherwise that'd just be different societies) how they rear their young and express love, etc etc. Going off of the emotional mirrors idea, a worker bee could at first only mimic the love of her partner on a surface level, but with time grow to understand and reciprocate a deeper understanding of love.

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>>81425934
Dorf bees.

Extremely ordered society and industrious. The reason that you don't see many dorf women is because the only "women" are the "queens" and attendants. The average bearded dorf you see walking around is anatomically female but are barren as having children is not their function.

Dorf children are born very small and are born in litters of about half a dozen. They are raised by the queen and attendant nanny dorfs. They will be raised according to the needs of the clan which will determine what they grow into. Soldier dorfs are usually in the 4 to 4 and a half foot tall range, and built wiry and nimble, workers are 3 and a half to 4 foot tall but built more stocky and robust. Queens and nanny dorfs are maybe five foot tall and more Rubenesque in shape.

Each clan has one queen who is the mother of it except for her siblings. Dorf Kings are chosen from carfully chosen "wandering" dorfs. The wandering dorfs are the only true male dorfs. They live nomadic lives, staying in a hold for a few years at most before leaving again. They father new dorfs at the request of the queen as needed to replace losses in battle or accident or time, for their service they are given food and shelter and a seat at the council. Then they move on as another wanders in and takes their place as no hold and clan can have two kings.

Leadership is made up of a council of the elders of the clan plus the queen and current king. The council is made up of senior specialists in the industries of the clan.

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IT'S
HIP
TO
you know...

>>81427188
>>81433882
>>81430739
>bees are emotional mirrors that reflect how they are treated
>the human king and the beefolk queen are in a symbolic marriage to unite the people/bees which has an unintended side effect that as much as the human king actually loves her she loves him back, if he feels just platonically fond of her then they lead separate private lives and joined public lives and if he grows to hate her... then the kingdom descends into chaos until our band of adventures can break the catch-22
>The beefolk are normally hardworking except for accidental bouts of drunken disorderly conduct, some bees fall out of the hive and lead lives of drunken homelessness like other human vagrants, maybe even humans and lost bees sitting around barrel fires passing the hooch around
>it's only when the queen bee is drunk that she can "bee herself" without reflecting so much. Maybe the queen bee really wished the king saw her as more than a co-ruler and more as a beloved bride like the other humans see their spouses, maybe she actually hates him and the fact he loves her traps her in a romantic relationship she deep down isn't so fond of. Either way you have a royal quest hook right there.
This is some good stuff, actually.

Did you know that in old roman times, it was thought that bees cannot abide a liar?

>>81434256
don't advocate for beestiality

CoC had an idea or two

>>81436136
That sounds kinda scary- what, would they cover a guy accused of dishonesty in honey and cover him in bees, and let them judge whether he was truthful or not?
I know they had some fucked-up punishments back then, like one where they'd put a guy in a box and feed him nothing but honey, making his shit so sweet insects would swarm him and eat him alive.

On that fun note, what forms of punishment would bees have for their truants and delinquents?

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>1. Bees have a higher nerve cell density than most mammals and birds in their brains
Yet they are complete dorks

>>81438621
cannabis plants need pollination too

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You mean this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdrLakTz7Ik

fucking zoomers...

>>81427160
neat

>>81438621
That's fucking hilarious. Is this what life is like for a bee? Constant bumbling and slapstick aerial collisions?

>>81438641
Zoomers? Not even millennials know about this one boss.

>>81428362
Mantids are very agreeable insects. I had one that lived in my garden that I trained to be friendly. I'd catch small grasshoppers and feed them to him, and after a couple days giving him snacks, he'd let me pick him up without freaking out.

Of course, eventually a second mantis came to the garden, and then after a little while, there was only this new mantis who did not recognize me. Pretty sure that was a female, and things went as they often do with mantid couples.

>>81438788
Note that lighter bit of wood at the top of the entrance that's gotten that way since they always run into the same spot.
Every damn time.

>>81425934
As long as they arent wasps everyone hates the fuckers and we should exterminate them

>>81439483
They are the niggers of the bees

>>81425934
>Giant Bees
>Giant Flowes
>Probably a Giant Ecosystem
This is an inchling thread innit?

>>81425934
It'd be pretty transactional. We build them nice places to live with lots of flowers and junk. They provide honey and viciously repel invaders as only a swarm of bees the size of a large cat can.

>>81438621
>>81438788
I told you they crash a lot, bro.

>>81438621
Couldn't they accidentally sting you given how clumsy they are even if they like you?

>>81440521
oh, absolutely.

>>81425934
We could plant big ass flower fields for the bees and in exchange they will give us their vomit (honey)

>>81438621
Look at these adorable little fuckers

>>81440521
I'm sure they could in theory, but you have to consider stinging is a once in a lifetime activity and doesn't engage with just a tap of their *ahem* "bee-hind". Bees normally clamp onto you and then jab their stinger into you with all their little bee might when they actually feel the need to be aggressive. With a docile hive that you have been calm and kind to the most likely cause of you being stung is when you start to inadvertently start to smoosh a bee which triggers a panic stinging reflex. So when I said I'll scoop bees and set them into my sun-hat I will occasionally get one caught under the back of my hand who gets a little spooked (or who I inadvertantly hurt) who will pop me.

Word of advice is when you get stung for any reason you wanna pick out the stinger, toss it away and smoke your hand with a puff or two. Stingers give off panic pheromones.

>>81438621
>>81438788
Yeah, if you tend bees and get to the point where I am where you just walk up to them and barehandedly handle them you'll need to not freak out when bees just slam into you. A lot of rookies start to get nervous, which makes the bees nervous, so they fly around them more, and it cascades. But the truth is these "bumbling" *heh* fucks just can't do any better. I have bees smack into my face/eyes all the time even if I only get stung once in a while.

So yeah, beepeople would be well-intentioned but anime maid levels of clumsy in the air. On the ground thoug they are actually quite graceful with their communication dances and navigating through thousands of other bees.

this is a good thread

>>81438641
Thank you, I've been looking for the name of this forever. I all but forgot it.

>>81425934
Humans are still pretty social for the animal world. We'd see eye to eye much better than bees and, say, turtles.

Bump

>>81425934
this is full retard

What would giant bees even eat? They can't possible subsist on the nectar of normal sized flowers.

A society of humans might be able to make a sugar water solution to sustain them, but I have trouble thinking of something they could live off of in nature.

>>81446858
If there are giant bees presumably there's a giant food sources somewhere.
Maybe part of Humanity and Bee's relationship is that humans could make sugar water and convert things into food sources that they couldn't subsist off raw.

>>81447019
Unless we genetically engineered the bees, there has to be something they lived off of before symbiosis with us.

At that size, maybe they just eat fruit?

>>81427602
I used to have a pet rooster. Can confirm everything this anon said.

>>81446858
magic flowers, duh

>>81438992
Mantids only eat their mates under duress.

>>81447359
Yeah, I'd be pretty stressed if I had to eat my boyfriend too.

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Reminder that bees can fall asleep on the job, often on flowers

>>81447307
Nearly every post I've made ITT I've made with this dumb clucker on my lap in a chicken nappy. It's pretty bad.

I got her a little collar that opens the pet door if she gets close enough and she'll come in the house and whine a big BURRRRRR BURRR BURRRRRRRR until I come put the nappy on her because she knows she's not allowed outside of the mudroom without it (sometimes she "forgets" this and finds me anyway) and then she'll follow me around the house in the same manner I described only since she is a chicken and these little raptors can jump so fucking high she'll always *BOING* onto anything that puts her more at eyelevel with me.
No amount of training keeps her from doing this. If I'm ironing laundry she will BOING onto the washing machine and look at me, if I'm painting minifigs she will BOING onto a bed I made for her on the side of my table. And forget cooking, she will boing onto the counter and try to peck at the things I'm chopping that she likes (particularly tomatoes and meats, even chicken meat....) despite her having spent all morning glutting it up.

If you wanted a clingy waifu race, do chicken-harpies. It'd be absolute moeshit anime waifu nonsense even if you didn't exaggerate it.

>>81447660
Bumblebees would be a great subrace. Like hobbits or warhammer halflings to humans. Shorter, fatter, less intelligent but more goodnatured and kind (never been stung by one in my entire life even if I pick them up)

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scientists have trained bees to play sports

>>81447660
we need to save them

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>>81447660

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>>81447734
faack yea
cam on bamblebee
scare sam facking goals

>>81447781
fukken... great big A to you, my man

>>81447064
I was trying to say since it's fantasy there's no reason there can't just also exist giant plants that act as 1:1 counterpart as normal sized bees. However just make them remote/hazardous enough that humanity presenting an alternative is enough incentive to create a strong relationship between the two species.

>>81447828
That makes sense. Any giant plants big enough for the bees will also likely produce giant fruit, which will be appetizing to giant creatures. Maybe even actual Giants, like this is the food that the titans and cyclops and shit eat, and the bees are naturally part of that ecosystem.

Chilling down with us little folk is probably way safer for them.

>>81447918
>Humans are famous for being beekeepers for giants
>We have a monopoly on the honey industry which fetches a nice price for wealthier giants
This is supremely /comfy/

>>81447781
Goddamnit I've not laughed that hard in a good while. Thanks Anon

>>81447902
L-lewd!

>>81425934
I've been thinking about including giant, intelligent bees myself for my own setting. Kind of working out a place for them and just how giant they should be. Kind of thinking maybe weta sized? This would of course mean their hives would be insanely large.

>>81427269
This is actually a pretty good world. Might use a different species than orcs, though. Yeah, yeah, SJW.
Maybe a sexier slave species. Goblins? Halflings?

>>81448580
What if instead of a traditional hive culture, they lived in large highly social 'towns', but since they can fly it's not a town in the sense we think of it. All of them make their own honey, and it's both a food source and a currency. Maybe it even crystalizes so it's easy to make chips out of it.

The kindly Scottish baker woman in the town cares for one that lost her wings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW-AiN2lKDM

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>>81427188
>meeting your wife-to-bee for the first time

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>>81447781

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>>81449017
Dayum boi, she THICC boi.

>>81440517
>I TOLD YOU ABOUT STAIRS BRO

>>81448806
Hmmm, kind of like the idea of 'bee towns'. I'm not sure about honey as a currency. Maybe flowers or pollen. Some ideas that I'm thinking include:
>All bees are basically capable of any role for their 'hive community', but as they do certain tasks more and more, other abilities atrophy
>So you have collectors who gather up pollen, honeymakers who convert the pollen into honey, breeders who keep the community numerous (so not exactly dedicated queens), caretakers who tend to the larva.
>they're noteably advanced enough to have 'architects' who come to specialize in making woodpulp and wax and shaping them into stable structures, 'farmers' who deliberately take excess pollen and even gather seeds to spread around, and 'ranchers' who take advantage of smaller animals who live symbiotically within their domains.
>Dedicated 'warriors' ironically do not have stingers, but their 'forelegs' (which are normally bristled and have extra joins compared to other legs to function as 'hands') harden and fuse into sharp blades. Also their pincers make the Japanese hornets of our world feel like kisses. This might be the only caste a bee is born into.
>They've come to recognize sapient races as 'friendly' as sapient humanoids often enjoy these bee communities setting up shop in their orchards. The bees manage other pests, and humanoids will often provide fires to keep them warm in the winter/provide better shelters for them to build in.

>>81442131
Hey bee-keeper anon, can you describe the ins and outs of a hive? How it's made, how insulated it is, etc.
Also, honey is bee vomit, right? Don't they also create the hive out of vomit, or is it just spit?
Would larger bees chew up trees and build a hive around them, on the forest floor?

>>81427269
Bad memes aside I like the idea of slaves being forced to tend extremely dangerous giant bees—whose honey fetches a huge price in international markets
Imagine a few orc / human slaves trying to harvest some honeycomb as carefully as possible, then one accidentally crushes a grub and gets stung through the heart by a stinger the size of a broadsword

>>81451516
Oh like that episode of Futurama.
>Bee Lords have monopolies on massive hives but routinely get into covert feuds of sabotage and espionage.
>A campaigns ranging from stealing royal jelly to create new hives, kidnapping princess grubs to begin a strong lineage in an existing hive, or assassinating queens with out the hive nor Bee Lords realizing until you're long gone.

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>>81425934
Bees are cute.

>>81442131
>>81451516
>Dangerous giant bees
>stinging is a once in a lifetime activity
On that note, friendly reminder that the only reason bees die when they sting us is their stingers get stuck in our skin and a chunk of their body tears off as they try to get away. Against other insects of the same size, they absolutely can sting multiple times.
A giant bee would probably be able to run you through no problem without getting stuck because of any barb, or it could just leave you impaled there until it got help cleaning you off.

>>81447902
I was expecting much worse.

>>81452190
>A giant bee would probably be able to run you through no problem without getting stuck because of any barb, or it could just leave you impaled there until it got help cleaning you off.
Sure, and a chihuahua can rip your fingers off if it really tries.

>>81450680
>I'm not sure about honey as a currency. Maybe flowers or pollen. Some ideas that I'm thinking include:
Edible units of currency tend not to work well. It's not very durable, leaves circulation too fast. Plus, you don't want currency to have intrinsic value, it should mostly be useful for what you can trade it for. I'd say just have the bees use coinage. You can make it more bee-themed by having them use hexagonal coins. You could do like pieces of eight and have the official coin be seven hexagons tiled together, but most people cut them up along the lines to break it up into smaller bits.

>>81452207
>It's not very durable
Honey will literally last thousands of years, archeologists have dug up some and ate it. It also double up as a "disinfectant" (doesn't really, but it seals the wound and prevents infection).

>>81452241
I was referring to the flowers and pollen idea, which to bees would be seen as food. You are right that honey is extremely long-lasting. It's because of having so much sugar that it actually impedes fermentation, combined with enzymes from the bee's stomach that make it acidic enough to kill bacteria. You have to keep it sealed, though, exposed to air it's hydrophilic enough that it draws in moisture and dilutes itself enough to no longer have its preservative properties.

>>81451458
I'm a different beekeeper than that guy.
Hives generally are as insulated as a hole in a tree gets, which is moderately.
Honey is indeed bee vomit, though I feel it's important to mention that it is stored in their transport stomach, and does not tend to get the digestive stomachs involved.
Wax is not spit. Was is in fact a substance produced in "scales" that form on the underbelly of bees. Bees have this ability while they are in nurse form, and lose it as they get closer to being a forager. They can re-gain the ability in emergency, but generally do not.
Additionally, a hive is also held together by propylis, a mix of resins taken from any plant in the region. It tends to be incredibly sticky.

And larger bees, assuming the square cube doesn't fuck them, would probably be forced to make more bare hives on the underhangs of stuff, as they can't fit in a tree.

>>81451516
the weird part is the crushing of the grub is probably not what would kill you, but any reaction you make to this. You need controlled movements in or around a hive.

>>81450680
A hive species shouldn't have currency, if anything could work as "communists" it's literal bug people bred to serve the hive. At best currency would likely be adopting any or several external currencies need they do business but "banks" are purely treasuries to hold any cash or treasure they may need to deal with outsiders. They themselves only see the value that others give it. it might even make sense that they have either a class of bees that specialize specifically in being envoys & diplomats to keep current on the actual value and ongoings around them so they don't become a sheltered hivemind or keep non-bee consults within their courts that understand how other cultures and species work since the idea of such radical individualism is difficult for most bees to grasp so easily let alone when involved in high stakes politics.

>>81427117
https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/213/4/i/10094/BEES-RECOGNISE-FACES-USING-FEATURE-CONFIGURATION
https://phys.org/news/2015-12-arms-social-wasps-alarm-pheromones.html
They absolutely can remember you, one way or another, and adjust their behavior accordingly. Beekeepers tend to be able to interact more readily with their bees than outsiders as a result of assisting the hive with cleaning etc and just frequent nonthreatening interaction in general. On the other hand, alarm pheromones will literally mark you for a while so that if you keep actively attacking a hive they'd become more aggressive. With their pattern recognition, skills, they'd probably start becoming aggressive whenever you got anywhere near the hive. I'd say that's at least analogous to forming friendships or animosity, if nothing else. It serves the same function, in the end.

So basically this thread is saying its hip to fuck bees

>>81425934

Fuzzy girls work hard, I can respect that.

>>81452653
I wanna brush a bee girl after she finishes working a long day in the fields
I wanna cuddle a bee girl in the winter

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>>81451458
Sure.
>>81452365
All of this. Though to clarify that honey is secondary-storage-stomach-bee-vomit, but it is also /fermented/. If you were to break open a cell right away you'd just get nectar in the same way opening a cask right away would just get you barley water. It's not altogether revolting, but it's not really good either.

>Wax is not spit
Wax is also, actually, truly, unquestionably the best way to eat honey. I'll just grab a rack and once I'm far enough away I'll just hold the whole thing like a yank with a burger and get myself stuck into honeytown. I've seen beekeepers online like JP who eat in front of the bees with 0 fucks given but I'm not so brave, call it superstition but I'm sure they would notice and remember that on a long term.

>ins and outs of a hive? How it's made, how insulated it is, etc.
It's insulated as best as a bee can manage, if they can get into brickwork or stonework they really like to. They also manually circulate air inside their hives with their wings. So a "trade" of beefolk would be a manual labourer who sits there and is an HVAC fan. Also you could make it so bees, too lithe to handle stone, get superior stonework sections to their hive in exchange for what they do. Maybe an old castle in the middle of town?

As for how they are laid out, if you've seen the inside of a human made beehive it's not too far off. Wild hives tend to be the same except for instead of neat squares they're mutiple, closely stacked rows of U shaped arches. When they need more real estate they will extend the pattern at the tip of a U, though to a degree they prefer to be a certain amount of wide for insulation. The entire reason we make rectangle hives is because bees rather like the shape for winter. The square sectioning is thick for winter, the height is the long cascading vertical hive structure they're used to.

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>>81454077
>Fermented.
Also beefolk would be natural brewers and coupled with the fact they like getting drunk on nectar and fruit is another tie-in.

Anyway, bee hives are also like skyscrapers. The guards are posted at the doors and bees aren't necessarily expecting you to helicopter kickflip into the boardroom on the 117th floor so assuming you don't rile the guards at the door and just take off a section and reach in the bees are pretty chill about it. "Oh I know your smell, my sisters mentioned you. You clean up around here don't you? I saw a larva the other day, adorable creatures. Ok, well, be seeing you". Even with a hive that knows and debateably likes you the guards at the door are much easier to peeve, that's why if they must be messed with keepers will smoke them as a matter of course. So your caste of guards would be tempermental ladies relative to the ditzy and unconcerned ones inside.Total redheads.

There's no such thing as a queens chamber really. While she is attended she pretty much is always on the move doing this or that though you can reasonably reckon that she'll be in the larval section of the hive most of the time.

On that note hives tend to be very effeciently "zoned". You'll have nectar processing the old sections of which become honey storage, pollen storage, royal jelly storage and larval sections, in box hives they tend to kinda make a lil atrium out of the entrence and have an adjunct for litter to be chucked out of the hive. I don't know enough about wild hives to comment on if they do that as well. I tend to keep buckets under the entrences to collect the bits and bobs they throw out so I don't peeve the guards.

Random fact. If you poke a backside of a bee that doesn't want to sting they'll clench and wiggle their little butt to keep it in and more tightly sheethe the barbs.I just do that for fun sometimes (though it def annoys them).Think lifting a skirt as the girl protests and holds it down anime trope.
>"waaaa! stahp >:T "

>>81426221
What is this? 1 truth, 2 lies? Post them sources boy or I'll keep killing bees with my reckless exploitation and pollution of nature.

>>81454319
read the thread bro

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>>81454465
>read

>>81447781
>Leicester city fan
>talks like a suvvener

>>81425934
cool thread and activated my almonds.
>>81427359
Cool answers and I'd definitely like to have a beer or mead with you If I'd ever meet you irl.

I'm not a beekeeper or gm, but I'd really like to contribute to this awesome in some way.
"Giant" bees, if such a species were to exist, would also need to cover giant territory, even with giant flowers.
I doubt they'd manage with less than one post-Industrial-Revolution sized european forest per hive.
Maybe this could be a starting point for symbiotic entanglement with humans.
Imagine how Humans and beehives have been at war with each other for most of their history, because giant bees need giant forests, but humans also need giant forests to cut them down for their own settlements.
Eventually, humans learned how to utilize and produce sugar, therefare a smart human ruler came to the conclusion, that peace with the bees was now a possibility. After tough negotiations, he came to an agreement with the first hive.
I'm just imagining things here, but onwe way this could work is, because humans have opposable thumbs and can build intricate architecture and infrastructure because of it, while bees cannot. Bees, however are producing some very awesome stuff can fly, are sentient, are deadly, are intelligent and are powerful for military units and law-enforcement, especially pre human aviation age, for example.
So both parties could gain something.
Their relationship proved to be pretty successful and other human and bee kingdoms took notice.
Thus, the setting came to be.

>>81439909
While you probably said this in jest, it's kinda clever. Why scale everything else up if you can just scale humans down?
I wonder how a smurf-campaign would play out.

>>81442131
>A lot of rookies start to get nervous, which makes the bees nervous
Yeah, was like that for me at the beginning too, when I was helping out my grandfather who keeps bees.

>>81427359
I know it's off-topic but would you consider buying honey unethical/destructive? I don't understand the argument of certain environmentalists that it is, since AFAIK beekeepers do not starve the hive to death every time they harvest the honey. Is this about industrially farmed honey? I was thinking of buying local honey. Also do people use weird chemical shit or other weird fuckery?

>>81425934
The magical honey they produce grants humanoids a low level psychic link with the hive. The bees instinctively understand the lack of malice and treat them accordingly. Giant bees become available as druid companion animals.

>>81455369
Not the Bee Guy or any kind of expert here, but I know good beekeepers will top off hives to stop them starving in winter. Bees work as hard as they can to fill up available space in the hive, so if you don't harvest the honey, they will run out of room and move to a different location so you're not abusing them by taking honey, as long as it's not too much at a time.
Bees don't like mould, mites or fungus in the hive and can deal with some themselves, but sometimes a small amount of chemicals are necessary to keep the hive safe, typ. alcohol or very small quantities of bleach (safe for bees).
I suggest looking up 'ethical beekeeping' on google and having a read.

Lazy thread, probably OP's fetish too

>>81427602
>the adventures of Beekeeper Bert and his emotionally codependent chicken

>>81447902
That is one gorgeous insect and I love the symbiosis here.

>>81425934
Bees upscaled to those dimensions wouldn't work physically. Whether to explain or handwave that issue is a choice to be made, even though both work.

>>81455703
Bees are adorable. I have a very nice closeup video somewhere of a bee who landed on my table to pack all the pollen she got over herself on her hind legs. They're super cute when they do that. You can see it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnAlwEP7i6c

>>81455774
https://youtu.be/iXDpzBqL2F4?t=38
Bees are kind of... average at flying. Watch at 38 seconds as a bee crashes while spinning, then slides off the deck due to still buzzing at full power. I really would rather not be out in the open among dog sized bees.

>>81455842
When I watch this and >>81438621 I imagine the bees going "ow", "s-sorry" every time they collide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLrzYsj6JjQ
Bee anon: what the hell is the bee on the far left of this video? The one who's halfway under the shade. It's vibrating its abdomen while hopping on its back legs.

>>81455892
>what the hell is the bee on the far left
>>They also manually circulate air inside their hives with their wings.
That's an HVAC bee.
https://i.imgur.com/FCKcd11.mp4

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>>81452207
>currency isnt supposed to have intrinsic value
Fuck off Keynes, your economic philosophy has killed us all

>>81454516
I like where this was going

>>81438621

That might just be like my dog, who with a combination of bone density, muscle mass, and overexcitement deliberately just runs into walls and bounces off them on purpose to change direction because it's easier than slowing down.

>>81454672
Selling mead is illegal without a license so I have never done such a thing... however, were I to... it would be very popular and delicious. Which I wouldn't.... because without a license which I do not have it is illegal to do so. In real life craft.

But yeah I'd have you over. We can paint minis and throw scraps at the chickens and watch the sun set on the loch and get shitfaced on wiskey meads.

>>81455369
Fundamentally disagree on a conceptual level. Vegans/etc. can fight me IRL and lose because my thicc ass would snap them in two. Industrial farms are a load of bollocks but whatever you wanna eat somebody is raising it without being a cocksniffer. Farmers markets are a tossup cuz you got shites who buy second hand wholesale and larp as farmers. If you want the real test go to a farmers market, ask to help around the farm for a day and hang out. Almost no real farmer will decline free help because in the growing season it is impossible to get enough done. Anybody who sketches out isn't worth your purchase.

>weird chemical shit or other weird fuckery?
I don't. I'm not even sure how you would but I'm sure globohomo has come up with some way to ruin it. Pesticides CAUSE sudden hive death, particularly roundup. My chickens are my pesticide, my fertiliser is their shite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCyHLY6XJnw

>>81455583
>if you don't harvest the honey, they will run out of room and move to a different location so you're not abusing them by taking honey
This. Most of my honey harvesting is in the summer when I notice a box getting full, maybe some in spring if the girls have a lot left over the winter. For the successful hives I will next season throw another box on top. So if a hive fills a lot it goes from a two box to a three box, etc. There have been harsh seasons where I empty my jars back to them because they're getting low. In the same way my chickens are my pesticide and fertiliser my bees are my pollinators. I need those girls.

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>>81452207
>you don't want currency to have intrinsic value
Fucking capitalist pigdog.

>>81456146
>Rogue Bees just like to go to well paying establishments and become the sentient A/C systems during the summer months.

>>81456146
Oh I didn't notice the wings. That looks like a lot of hard work.

>>81458281
>>81458250
Don't worry. They're in a union. They've got a rota organized so no one bee is going 12/7.

>>81457809
>If you want the real test go to a farmers market, ask to help around the farm for a day and hang out. Almost no real farmer will decline free help because in the growing season it is impossible to get enough done. Anybody who sketches out isn't worth your purchase.
Is there work in this field? I can't work in a farm because I hate how farmers keep animals, they're fucking disgusting. But beekeeping seems more ethical. Local businesses here are family owned and if they're like the other farmers I suspect they that they get immigrants to work for them instead of white people because they can pay them peanuts.

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I feel like Anonkeeper is full of shit. Insects cant possibly bee as affectionate as mammals. Anon has beeen working with bees for so long that he now beelives that a cold hive mind can bee anything but mere cooperation. Buzz off and touch some grass, please.

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>>81458323
>hello fellow bees! I have a few proposals for you..

>>81454077
WTF, Every wild hibe I ever see had a coat of white stuf protecting the hive and the honey.

Do people here prefer the idea of a sapient bee race, or a non-sapient take? (All larger than regular bees of course, square cube bee damned)

Some anon mentioned bees enjoying getting into stone if they could, what if these giant fantastic takes took over an abandoned castle?

>>81454208
I want to fuck that bee.
That stinger is very lewd.

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>>81458336
>Is there work in this field?
Yeah, always. People always need to eat. Is it competitive pay? No, not really. If you're looking to get your life on track or get fit and reconnected to the land or learn the trade for yourself or get ready to ride out the boogaloo or know a cute farmers daughter and want to make a good son in law then go for it. Otherwise if you aren't in at the owner-level I can't MUCH recommend it. I am at the landowner level and it's more a blood-and-soil thing for me. Still waiting for that aspie GF to come out of the woods though.

>I hate how farmers keep animals, they're fucking disgusting.
Bwuh? A. I dunnae what farmers you're talking about most of the people who raise meat around me are alright fellows and don't harm animals or make them suffer besides taking their lives for consumption B. Become the change you want to see in the world

>Local businesses here are family owned and if they're like the other farmers I suspect they that they get immigrants to work for them instead of white people because they can pay them peanuts.
That is a general, scummy, practice... however so is pesticide and factory farming. Most do, some won't. I don't know how tight ethnic solidarity is in your area but that will impact your success a lot.

>>81458403
How can this bee? I have bee-n revealed by your honeyed words. I cannot bee-lieve this turn of ebeents has 'api'nd

>>81458418
What's that mister suckerman? You need us to let you educate our larva for us? Well... I guess it would save time...

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I want to see a giant bee queen woman up close.

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>>81458464
I like Sapient Bees that are still for the most parrt just giant bees...at most I'd just like for them to talk but even the idea that there's a language barrier but still communication is still charming.
Non-sapient bees feels more or less like giant Beekeeping whereas Sapient Bees feels like a co-existing society and lends to more interesting scenarios beyond fantastic fauna.

>>81452207
>>81452382
These are kind of good points. Even if my idea is that these giant bees are more intelligent and have developed a wider society (and even integrated outsiders for it) they're still hive creatures at heart and would live more in a socialist system and only deal with currency to deal with outsiders.

Also think maybe the idea that soldiers are the only caste the bees are borne into might be switched in favor of technically all the bees start out as soldiers, but specialize overtime/doing something a lot over a period of time, the idea being that starting out as a soldier bee would allow them to expand, and once an area is claimed, they specialize into less combative roles for actual settling.

>>81447781
I've been recalling this at random times and laughing like a retard, thanks anon

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Hello there, fellow yellow and black insects.

>>81457809
>Selling mead is illegal without a license so I have never done such a thing... however, were I to... it would be very popular and delicious.
The struggle is real my brother. Granted I do 1 gallon batches in my basement, so it’s not like I have enough to sell anyway.
What do you mean by whiskey mead? Is that just mead with toasted oak cubes, or some kind of cocktail?

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>>81461620
Whisky, mead, ice, stir with a finger. Pretty good. Sometimes poitìn gets swapped out for the whisky and depending on how your shiner is making is poitìn it can be even sweeter and stronger still for it. 8/10, high tier man's cocktail. My grandpa, my gruncle and my other grandpa (the ones who started the beekeeping) would drink em and I'm quite fond.

>>81461837
Well shit, i’ll have to try that later tonight. I doubt it’ll taste much like yours would, though. Apparently mead in North America has a very “Local“ flavor, because no one‘s been exposed to the traditional stuff.

>>81460823
I like wasps too. Everything up to hornets will enjoy my benevolence.

>>81427474
M8, you realize that the hives of bees are genetically speaking, just massive families, right? As in, a bee hive is far more exclusionary in terms of membership than any human society, even a tribe has ever been. Bees and other hive insects in general, only give a shit about their direct genetic relatives whereas even tribal human societies could include new members from other human tribes over time.

>>81460823
If it's tinted red and 3 inches long I burn it hard.
Hate wasps.

>ctrl+f "queen city jazz"
>no results
disappoint

>>81427474
crazy dude sort of like bees, huh?????
dumb bitch

>>81462672
I understand how you may get this impression, but it's not strictly the case.

Not only will hives gladly support drones from other hives on summer months (drones can drift many, many miles this way), they also will accept foreign workers who just so happen to be carrying a full supply of nectar.
Because bees often land at the wrong hive, especially if they're close together. I have no idea how the guard bees know which ones are full though.