IMO old ones.

I mean, they can summon the newer planeswalkers

>>8777420

I thought that was supposed to be more of an alliance than a summoning.

Either way I'm pretty sure neowalkers can't pull 7/7s from the aether and bind them to their will with thought alone, so yeah.

>>8777420

Technically, you just drop them a note and they come and help you a bit. After they take a few hits because you couldn't cover them they go "dude, screw you, you totally fail at being support" and go away. That's why they have "loyalty counters" and not Toughness. They're not really getting hurt - just enough for it to sting and make them uninterested in keeping helping you.

No doubt the official answer is that they're the new ones, because it wouldn't make sense any other way.

That said, based on what I've seen of the new 'walkers (more the books than the cards, since the cards only represent what they're willing to do to help YOU out, not the best of their potential) the average MTG player is about ten leagues out of their league.

>>8777446

Aren't the newer 'walkers mortal?
Why don't they die when my Plated Slag Wurm bites down on their heads

>>8777446
Yeah, but it's still initiated by the playerwalker. The fact that they'll come help you out when you send a note is reason enough to believe that you're better than them.

I mean, all they can do is a single spell a turn, where you sling spells all day long

Fuck new walkers. Seriously, Fuck 'em.

Although, currently, you are a new walker, and the planeswalker cards represent one giving you aid. They're not dedicating much to helping you- they have their own shit to deal with- but they'll provide a few useful magics every now and then, unless helping you proves too damaging to their own affairs.

>>8777498
>>8777463

It makes no sense for the player to be a new 'walker!

Unless they're the top-ranked ever, making Jace and Chandra look like fresh 'sparked magi.

I mean, 20 'toughness' is more than... anything. Except Marit Lage, whatever the fuck that is.

>>8777536
It makes no sense for them not to be. The whole 'walker retcon in Time Spiral affected all 'walkers, even the pre-existing ones. Hell, even Bolas got nerfed, and he pre-dates Urza.

>>8777555

WE WERE OUTSIDE THE MULTIVERSE FOR THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT

>>8777555
you forget, the player planeswalkers are the ultimate form of self-insert mary-sue

>>8777536

Planeswalker cards aren't the 'walker in full power mode. They represent a little bit of aid here and there. All 'walkers have their own affairs. Are you really so arrogant that you think one would dedicate their Entire power to you due to your own stupid little conflicts?

A planeswalker, at full power, is another magic player. A planeswalker card is an ally of yours who occasionally throws a spell your way, but won't stick around if things become heated because, it really aint their problem.

>>8777603

They still don't seem as strong, in canon, as what a player is capable of. They're just strong mages with 'walking ability. Players are mages with world-ending powers and the ability to enslave gods and legends for the sake of having them fight other players.

>>8777603
This is all well and good, but...

Have you read any of the books featuring the new 'walkers? Jace, Chandra, and Lilliana all kind of come off as incompetent losers. Especially Jace.

>>8777625

Honestly, I'm an oldfag. I'm avoiding the new books like the plague. The neowalkers just fucking piss me off compared to the superbadass 'walkers of old.

I haven't bought any cards since Time Spiral, although I've traded for a few cool new rares, so I have some 'walker cards, and think they're actually a really cool concept and work damn well. I might pick up some stuff when the new mirrodin set comes out though.

The level up stuff does look kinda retarded though.

>>8777699
Really? That's odd. I've been playing since, well, portal, I guess, but long enough that most of my collection isn't extended-legal.

Anyway, I'm relatively a magic oldfag, as far as magic oldfags go (people who started in mirrodin claim to be oldfags) and I think the new walkers are pretty cool, as far as that goes. And I think the level-up mechanic looks balls-awesome.

>>8777740

I don't like the levelup mechanic. It's excessive, makes for ugly cards, and doesn't contribute significantly to the game.

>>8777740
Visions-fag here. I like the concept of the planeswalker cards, but I think they should be restricted to one copy a deck. Not really for balance, more for flavour I guess.

Level up mechanic looks.. I dunno. Will have to see how it plays in limited before I say yay/nay

>>8777740

Probably should lay down my pedigree then. Started in 6th edition, bulk of my collection is Invasion and other weatherlight saga stuff, although I also have a lot of Ravnica (The best recent set, imo).

The level up mechanic Does have potential to be cool, but I'm just annoyed at the current spate of what I see as power creep. Yeah, I know there are all the arguments against it, but I'm not gonna have faith into the game until I see it establish a new equilibrium.

>>8777784

In what, exactly? Standard has no equilibrium and is immune to power creep. The eternal formats are so bloated and established that any set that has a few of its components making into decks is a rarity. The arguments on pwer creep are not about its unlikelihood but the functional impossibility of it existing.

>>8777757
Wow. I don't know what to say. I normally agree with you, but...

When I first saw one--the vampire assassin, I believe--I admit I thought it was some sort of composite of a creature and one or more planeswalkers. But once I figured out what it was doing, I dunno. I think it's flavorful, I think that, if nothing else, it looks better than those damned dual-cards (I'll never forgive rosewater for those) and I think they open up a lot of design space.

>>8777781
I know what you mean. In my playgroup we've been running an EDH variant with planeswalkers as generals. It's pretty sweet.

>>8777810

Funny, I dislike level-ups but adored the flipping dual-state cards.

>>8777808

I'm a casual player. In the games I play, I see cards from every set and every block pretty regularly. From that perspective, I'm noticing new cards which are strictly better than older cards. That in itself worries me. If the game just resettles at a higher standard power level? Its okay. If Each new set is a little better, It isn't.

>>8777810

What design space? It restricts the cards, negates room for flavour text, and the templating has too much crowded space AND too much empty space.

>>8777832

>From that perspective, I'm noticing new cards which are strictly better than older cards.

AND THERE ARE OLD CARDS STRICTLY BETTER THAN EVERYTHING.

>>8777832

But the cards aren't better. You're just falling victim to new-and-shiny-vision. Creatures are becoming better and spells are becoming less likely to win the game by themselves without incident. The creatures are becoming better at higher levels to make larger creatures viable, and to make creatures inherently a valid winning mechanism as opposed to a useful tool to hold out for your winning spells or the means by which your winning spells win.

>>8777740
I started with a deck made out of Alpha and Beta cards. I was in elementary school. I remember Ice Age fondly.

Then I stopped playing, and started playing again in high school, back when Armadillo Cloak and whatnot came out. I stopped playing after I graduated high school.

I sort of started playing again recently because someone mentioned Lackey on /tg/, and I downloaded it and started playing people over the Internet.

>>8777852
That being only 2 mana was what always pissed me off.

>>8777852

True enough. Nevertheless, for a long time, there was a relatively standard "This is how powerful a card can be, this is how much it costs" balance. It wasn't perfect, and there were some epic fuckups (Skulltap lol), but in general, there was a set level of ability for each cost of each colour. Now, it seems to me the standard power of cards is going up. As I said, its okay if they're just establishing a new equilibrium (From a design perspective, perhaps), but Not if they're making power creep an ongoing process.

>>8777836

Personally, I liked dual state cards. They were fun and fluffy.

I always thought something really cool they could do is dual state lands. For example a mountain/forest which, every time you tapped it, flipped, changing the type of mana it could produce. Do a set of those for the different colour combinations, and it could produce some interesting decks and situations.

Oldfag represent. Pic related.

I haven't bought new cards since Shadowmoor. And then only because I like scarecrows.

Thank goodness I got out when I did. I can't stand the new cards and the mucking about they did with rules and wording. Planeswalkers were bad enough.

>>8777625
>Have you read any of the books
>Have you read any of the tie-in books for a collectible card game
Holy shit.

This shit never ceases to amaze me.

>>8777882

Fuck that shit. One of the better parts of magic (Was) its storyline. Of the recent sets, only Ravnica had really good plot. Lowryn was readable, and Time Spiral was an okay chapter in the ongoing dominaria thing (Although it had some really shitty choices going on), and I'm not sure what the new books are like. I might pick up Alara when its cheaper, and Zendikar, including cthonic entities of immeasurable power, sounds interesting to say the least.

>>8777826
I meant the split cards, where there are two cards on one card.

>>8777836
Design space. As in "how many new things can we do with this mechanic", not as in layout space. Say whatever else you want about the level-up cards, they allow you to do things that you strictly speaking couldn't do before.

Even if you point out that similar mechanics existed (Figure of Destiny being the easiest and most recent example, unless I'm mistaken) keywording and formatting it in this way breaks the mechanic wide open. I can now print a card that says all my creatures level up, or a card that says all creatures become level 0. I can also (as they've already done) create "dead" levels, thus allowing more versatility in the sort of effect the levels are having and/or their costing. Lighthouse Chronologist would never have worked the old way, for example.

>>8777879
Haha. That trollface.

>>8777874

Cards in general aren't getting better, just expensive creatures. Wizards have said about ten thousand times they're making creatures inherently viable, and not just an interesting augmentation to spells. For now the rare inexplicably good card is likely as not to be an experimnt in exactly where the power level should go to, which is what they've said about a few of the just a bit silly cards.

I'm not opposed to new types of cards, but functionality is not the only concern. If a new style of card looks bad or restricts the flavour possibilities it won't be something I can ever get behind.

>>8777882
Urza books were amazing.

The newer planeswalker books are...only readable if you can enjoy the magic references.

All the other new magic books I've read, admittedly, were pretty shitty. You're right.

>>8777904

They allow new things, but the cards themselves are enormously restrictive in what you can do with them. It's like making a new kind of writing/drawing implement that can only write text and only in copperplate gothic. It's new, but it isn't going anywhere.

>>8777930
How so? I would love to know how this is "more restrictive in what you can do with it" than, say, morph?

As for not going anywhere, of course not. I'm not delusional. The mechanic will never leave the set. That's not the point. It still has potential.

>>8777900
You could read card game tie in books.

Or you could read books that are both actually good and more entertaining

the new planeswalkers are just a bunch of pussies, intended to cater to a certain demographic each.
emos, furries, and guys wou want to be little girls

>>8777949

The amount of design attention such a complex and involved mechanic would have recieved is enormously disproportionate, which is why its inevitable rapid exhaustion makes it a bad thing.

>>8777930
Actually, it could.

I mean, imagine a global enchantment that levels up every creature in play every upkeep.

>>8777956

Wow, you're a bigoted moron!

>>8777961

Meanwhile, old planeswalkers were a buncha god mode sues.

>>8777983
doesn't know how mary sue works

>>8777974
>bigoted
Yes. That's it. I'm a bigot, because I think you should be reading good writing instead of bad writing.

Reading Magic books is like eating junk food or watching DBZ.

>>8778003
never watched DBZ

>>8777983

Fuck you.

You are fucking retarded.

You have Completely missed the point of old planeswalkers, And misused the term Mary Sue.

Old planeswalkers were powerful, yes. Powerful does not equal mary sue. Even a being as powerful as a planeswalker, a living being of mana who can call entire armies from nothing and shake planes with their fury, are not automatically mary sues. And, most planeswalkers are not. Why?

Flaws. Every single planeswalker was, once, mortal, and The Spark does't change what you were. You are Still flawed, still beset by hubris and arrogance, perhaps even more so than before. Planeswalkers are laid low by their own fragments of mortality. More planeswalkers have died from their foolishness and all too human errors than have ever been bested in contests of magic, and that is basically the point.

Planeswalkers are like the tragic heroes of old. Powerful, yes. Blessed, yes. The greatest heroes or villains of the verse. And, each and every one is bound to tragedy. I cannot think of a Single mentioned planeswalker who didn't meet a tragic end.

>>8778003
Again, Urza books were fucking amazing, and definitely do not read like "tie-in" books. You can choose not to believe me, but you will be wrong, and ignorant.

>>8778012
Karn's still kicking no?

>>8777949
actually, Morph was a fantastic little gem. It made limited play interesting

Level ups.. well, they're like kickers that you play after the card is on the field. I have a feeling ROE will have a ton of mana acceleration for all these 10-12 mana level ups + the eldrazi themselves

which, I don't think will be very interesting to play with or against. I'm reserving my judgment until after I try it, but right now I'm extremely skeptical

>>8778022
he's gonna get raped in the second mirrodin block

>>8778003

>Hurrdurr

You're a bigot because you're saying "Because the novel is related to a game franchise, it must be bad".

And, simply, you are wrong. Some of the books are bad, yes. Some of all books are bad. And some are really, really good. But you assume they must be terrible. Because you're a bigoted cunt.

>>8778022

He's alive, yes. After seeing everyone he ever cared about die, having his pride and joy (Mirrodin) turn into a horror show, and fleeing through time from something so horrifying it nearly drove him mad.

Dead? No. Tragic? Fuck yes.

>>8777988
>>8778012

Calm down guys, I wasn't being very serious.

They do kinda break the universe, though.

>>8778031
>You're a bigot because you're saying "Because the novel is related to a game franchise, it must be bad".
Oh, yeah. You're so fucking oppressed, kid.

>Some of all books are bad. And some are really, really good. But you assume they must be terrible.
Which ones are really, really good? What makes them really, really good? Do they even stack up to popular fantasy stuff like George RR Martin's, much less literature and literature-quality stuff?

>>8778023
You say that they're a type of kicker as though that meant something.

There's a TON of shit that is basically just a sub-group of kicker. Entwine. Dual-cards. Split-cards. Multi-kicker, obviously. Hell, most of the morph things basically boil down to "pay more at some point to get an extra effect" and the ones that don't can be described as "2/2 for 3 unless/until you pay the higher mana cost that makes them something bigger/better" So, really, even morph is like a type of kicker.

>>8777414
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>>8778031
>bigot
Holy shit.
He's not trying to deny you civil rights, you faggot.

>>8778052

>Which ones are really, really good?

The Brother's War is probably the best MTG novel, period.

>What makes them really, really good?

Excellent characterization and fluid writing.

>Do they even stack up to popular fantasy stuff like George RR Martin's, much less literature and literature-quality stuff?

Yes to some, no to most.

>>8778052

The weatherlight saga, in its full length, is one of the best fantasy series I have ever read. Its a crying fucking shame it gets overlooked because its linked to a game, as it is a really brilliant epic fantasy story. Even better if you read the brothers war and the stuff which came before it.

Now, this shit is quite subjective, so its not to everyone's tastes. But, you're still a bigoted cunt for assuming things must be bad. I read literature, I read "proper" books, but you know what? I also read game tie in books, and the strangest thing? They're good too. So, fuck you and your small, narrow mind.

>>8778045
can you give short summary of every planeswalker death?

>>8778056
ah, you misinterpreted my words (or I typed them out poorly); I meant that the level up mechanic isn't all that interesting or special. It just seems like a way to print cards that need ten or so mana put into them to be effective, which looks like it's going to be a theme for the set.

Something I'm not exactly happy with..

>>8778003
>Implying eating junk food isn't really awesome and that DBZ was a terrible thing for the world.

Seriously faggot. Cut that shit out. You are comparing the novels to entertainment for children. So then, it's still entertainment. For fuck's sake, this is /tg/. TRADITIONAL GAMES. GAMES ARE PRIMARILY FOR CHILDREN. Let people enjoy what they want to enjoy and take that cock out of your ass while you're at it, fag.

>>8778065
Brother's war was good, but it's probably the weakest of the Urza's Saga (or artifact cycle, or whatever) books. The others were all way more interesting.

Especially the last one. All that stuff with Keldon society? The necropolis and the thing with the stairs? That shit was pretty fucking sweet.

And the stand-in evincar, too. And the stuff about Benalia, actually.

FFS, look up "bigot" in a dictionary you useless fucks, only >>8778062 has any clue as to what it means.

>>8778115

>Brother's war was good, but it's probably the weakest of the Urza's Saga (or artifact cycle, or whatever) books. The others were all way more interesting.

What, no way was Time Streams as good as TBW.
Planeswalker was a hit-or-miss, I thought it was great 'cause I loved Xantcha and Ratepe.

Urza's Legacy was as good as it should have been, but I still enjoyed reading TBW more.

>>8778098
Except that you can play them, essentially, on layaway. Which actually IS fairly innovative, and something that they don't do very often in magic, and never more than onesie-twosie (again, Figure of Destiny being a past example).

I guess it's a matter of different strokes. I think figure of destiny is a pretty cool card. Giant catterpillar too, for that matter. I don't really like the flip-around cards, but I imagine if I'd been "phased in" for Kamigawa I would like them. By keywording this sort of thing, they can do a whole lot more with it than they could before, and I think that that makes it worth a slightly-less-than-optimal layout scheme.

>>8778061
Has anyone tried to read this spam? It's a fucking nightmare.

>>8778139
Meh. I dunno. Brother's war was always just so...depressing.

>>8777418

Oh shi- I just noticed Urza's carrying the Staff of Domination in that pic. Damn Urza, you so cool.

I'd love to see an Urza card, and maybe cards for some of the other well-known oldtime 'walkers. I can see why Wizards went with new characters for the first 'generation' of 'walker cards, hopefully now they've gotten the hang of it, we can see Freyalise, Serra and Jhoira, too.

Old planeswalkers will always be the superior characters, fighters, and types, hands down. No book Wizards will ever put out will match the Invasion block, or the Ravnica block. The new lore is just such fucking kiddy shit compared to the old stuff.

I wish they'd just retcon the loss of the strong 'walkers, and go from there.

>>8778165
I would not be surprised to see them in the 'return to mirrodin' or whatever set

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>>8778165
It DOES look similar.

Of course, that picture of Urza predates that card by years and years...

I wonder if that staff was designed to look like the one Urza's holding?

>>8778165

Comparing old walkers to new walkers in game would be ridiculous. We've been over this.

Urza would be like
+1 - draw as many cards as you like
-1 - play all spells for 0
-3 - exile target player

>>8778148
>>8778148

>Here is a crazy idea: stop fucking with pedotalk and shutdown this illegal site (lol). By the way, here is the mentally ill lying psychopath thief Christopher Poole (aka moot) in action (turn it into lower-case ascii): then a link to a fake emial purporting to be from moot to kimmo.

Guy's as crazy as a barrel of niggers.

>>8778178
It'd be so easy to do it too.

'sparks were sleeping'
'sparks were suspended during dominaria's time fuck ups'
'future self uses time hiccups to send spark back to you get the fucking idea this is easy shit to fix wizards

>>8778097

I'll try... There are two events which killed a lot of 'walkers. The Apocalypse, back in Invasion, and the recent events of Time Spiral.

Bo Levar- Sacrificed self to save a merfolk colony from Yawmgoths death cloud

Commodore Guff- Killed by Yawgmoths death cloud

Daria- Betrayed and killed by Tevesh Szat

Dyfed- Stabbed by Yawgmoth with a power stone blade, vivisected for aeons by Yawgmoths minions. Eventually allowed to die by the actions of Rebbec

Freyalise- sacrificed herself to seal the skyshroud rift.

Jaya Ballard- Thought to be dead, although it happened off screen.

Jeska- Sacrificed herself to seal the Otarian rift

Karn- see above

Kristina of the Woods- Killed by Tevesh Szat

Leshrac- Killed by Nicol Bolas

Lord Windgrace- Sacrificed himself to seal the Urborg Rift, possibly also becoming Urborgs guardian spirit.

Serra- Died of grief and sorrow

Taysir- Betrayed and murdered by Urza

Tevesh Szat- Killed in order to power The Soul Bomb after betraying Urza

Urza- Decapitated by Gerrard, sacrificed his spark in order to activate the legacy weapon, killing Yawgmoth.

>>8778144

I guess. Maybe I'll end up liking the mechanic a lot, but right now I'm not seeing it.

But then again, it's silly to base my entire opinion on something like this before I see all the cards

>>8778198

That's what I figured, an homage. Also, is that the Planar Portal behind him? And what's that thing on the left, Karn?

>>8778207
Exactly. Their reasoning for it was SUCH FUCKING SHIT.

HURRDURR TONING THEM DOWN MADE THEM MORE RECOGNIZABLE AS CHARACTERS

No, it made the dynamic of huge power and still flawed go out the window. Urza, Teferi, Freyalise and even the evil 'walkers, they were all just so captivating to read about, because no matter their power, alien mindsets, they still had issues.

The Urza v Gerard fight was pure literary genius, a hugely emotional fight, and that writer is a god. why can't we have that back?

>>8778199

But he'd be ridiculous to play, and even harder to keep in your field.

Stuff like
As an additional cost to play Urza, Planeswalker, sacrifice Mightstone and Weakstone (lololduselessjunkfluffcards)
Cumulative upkeep, flip a coin. If a coin ever lands on tails, Urza gets bored and 'walks away. If flipping 2 coins or more and all land on tails, all players lose the game.

>>8778211
this is why old magic lore was better. remember all those cards from invasion etc. where you justr read the flavour text and you knew some epic shit was going on. i never read the books, but the cards alone were so cool

>>8778228
ffffuuuuu

I have always been a fan of MTG lore but never really had access to it. Do you guys have any recommendations for reading materials or are you drawing this from manuals/cards/whatnot?

>Bo Levar- Sacrificed self to save a merfolk colony from Yawmgoths death cloud

>Commodore Guff- Killed by Yawgmoths death cloud

>>8778250
Go read the Invasion book, you don't even need to read the rest. But really, read from the brothers war up to Ravnica.

Gerard and Urza fought tooth and nail while Yawmgoth watched, killing each other multiple times. Gerard finally wins by summoning a fucking halberd with willpower, and decaps Urza.

Urza, as a head wakes up later, and they're surrounded by enemies. He tells Gerard something like "SWEEP THE ROOM, GERARD." and then fucking blasts the shit out of everything with his eyes

>>8778250

The invasion block is my favourite set of novels, although the more of the Weatherlight saga you can get, the better. Also the artifacts cycle, with the brothers war etc.

Some of the recent ones aren't bad. I personally enjoyed the Odyssey/Onslaught books, about Otaria, and Kamigawa, Ravnica and Mirrodin are pretty good reads too. Mirrodin is weak in plot, but has a great setting. Kamigawa has good characters and setting, but agan a meh plot. Rav rocks hard.

Time Spiral is only good for all the throwbacks to earlier stuff.

Lorwyn is interesting, but didn't really impress me much. Haven't read any beyond that.

>>8778239

That was the most annoying change in magic; the day the ytook out the story from the cards. It was bad enough when they took out the little booklets from deckboxes, but this weakened the fluff even worse, by taking away the little interactiosn everyone had with the story, and that feeling of involvement. Under the new philosophy, a card like Vindicate wouldn't see print as-is.

>Urza- Decapitated by Gerrard, sacrificed his spark in order to activate the legacy weapon, killing Yawgmoth.

Pay all you life: Exile target God.

>>8778250
The books from Artifacts -> Onslaught are easily found on a torrent. Try google.

If you can find later books on a torrent I'd love to hear about it.

Of course, you can find a bunch of them at your local bookstore, which it'd probably be good to support. You'll have to go to a used bookstore, though, unless you want the newest ones (which, as far as I can tell, you generally don't. The chandra one was pretty good, though. I mean, not, "this is a good book that can stand on its own merits" good, but "this is good if you already like magic" good.

>>8778265

To be fair the Commodore, he also rewrites destiny so Phyrexia's victory isn't assured. (His library contained all books in the multiverse, including a history of the future. He erased the passage about Phyrexia's victory, then died)

>>8778288
THAT FUCKING FLAVOR TEXT. YES.

>>8778267
Alright, thanks, bro.

>>8778298

http://thepiratebay.org/search/magic%20the%20gathering/0/99/600

Artifact and Invasion cycles rock hell.

>>8778276
You're a liar. The Mirrodin books are godawful. I suffered through the first two, and am currently working up the nerve to read the third one, but they just SUCK. They're BAD books and they're POORLY written.

>>8778299
Oh god yes.

>>8778315

As I said, weak plot, but I Love the concept of the setting. I read the books mostly for the setting information. And Slobad. Slobad fucking rocks.

>>8778322

And, thinking about it, Bosh. Bosh was totally awesome. Its just glissa and the rest are kinda dumb and annoying.

>>8778322

And that's why I hated the loss of the little booklets. They told you everything you needed to know, got you into the story, explained why it was all going on, had the mechanics and their rules, all of the precon decklists and how to play them, and even a recommended list for each deck that took them to tourney-viable level. They were the best part of a deckbox.

>>8778342
have him start at loyalty 3

urza doesn't fuck around

>>8778342

Seems about right. But, what would Yawgmoth be?

>>8778299
>To be fair the Commodore, he also rewrites destiny so Phyrexia's victory isn't assured. (His library contained all books in the multiverse, including a history of the future. He erased the passage about Phyrexia's victory, then died)

...Actually, that's pretty awesome.

>>8778350

Urza also has things to do. He's not gonna fix your problems right away, he's dealing with his own shit, and its Way more important than yours.

>>8778350

True, but Urza also does not give a shit about you unless you help him fight Phyrexia or something.

>>8778322
Slobad's OK.

There really ISN'T any setting information in the books, though, is the thing. You learn virtually nothing in the books you can't figure out by looking at the cards, and the stuff you do learn that way is THE WORST PLOT EVER.

Still, I guess it's better than the Alara book. One of the more well-written non-weatherlight-saga magic books, it suffers the terrible drawback of NOT TELLING ME HOW IT ALL FUCKING ENDED. Did Bolas succeed? Is he dead? Are there now two Bolases? How does someone with only red and white mana make a bolas-clone that then attacks bolas anyway? No one knows! And that shit about how Bolas could have just killed Ajani in the first place but instead chose to make some stupid prophecy that had the side-effect of creating his downfall? They had the nerve to hang a lantern on THAT? "Yes, I know my plan was pretty stupid, in retrospect. I thought I'd point that out to you before you cloned me and then there was the least climactic ending ever"

Goddamn I hate that book SOOO much. Cameo another pointless legend, why don't you, Beyer?

>>8778350

Urza don't owe you nothin, bitch. You're lucky he even turned up.

>>8778343
I remember those. And they had them in Pokemon TCG too. And they used to make Pokemon TCG still. And Star Wars minis and tabletop wasn't canceled. And Wizards used to care about their loyal customers. Wizards used to not suck.

>>8778373
I'm amazed you wrote that post without mentioning 4th edition.

>>8778380
I was avoiding a derail into edition wars. Instead I listed things that everyone could agree on. Wizards used to care a lot more about us.

>>8778351

Yawgmoth, the Ineffable - (50)
Legendary Artifact Creature
99/99
When Yawgmoth, the Ineffable comes into play, sacrifice all other permanents
Yawgmoth, the Ineffable cannot be blocked
If you would win the game, you lose the game instead

>>8778394

Wizards used to be run by gamers, but ever since hasbro, the gamers/money men ratio has been shifting the wrong way, and its more and more about the cash, less and less about the game.

>>8778398

Oh, and Indestructible of course.

>>8778398
I think you mean "each player sacrifices all permanents he or she controls.

>>8778398

Too weak. Needs to be indestructible, and have a few other abilities to boot. Honestly, even though he isn't a 'walker, a 'walker style card would work (Just call it God instead or something of the sort)

>>8778342

>>8778412

That's better, yeah.

Except planeswalkers kekeke

>>8778418

Hahahahaha, perfect

>>8778418

I ONLY HAVE FOUR LIMBS!

>>8778431

That's what you get for not being a techpriest.

>>8778418
But... what if I play a game outside?

>>8778431
Men have 5. Are you well enough to give it all for yawgmoth?

Why has no one mentioned the nine titans yet?

Nine Planeswalkers, Nine of the most powerful beings Ever, including Urza and Taysir, some of the most powerful planeswalkers, working together.

Then, they all get GIANT MAGIC ROBOTS, train in them for years (using a fast time rift), and then INVADE PHYREXIA.

It is ridiculously badass.

>>8778437

All part of Yawgmoth's plan to force you into self-improvement through horrific scouring. Phyresis ca nstart small, too.

>>8778437
OH GOD.

I'm still cool, right guys?

Right?

Yawgmoth, The Ineffable
Protection from artifacts, creatures, lands, and spells [am I forgetting anything besides planeswalkers?]
When Yawgmoth, the Ineffable, comes into play, each player sacrifices all non-black creatures and all non-swamp lands he or she controls.
Cards in your graveyard have flashback. Their flashback cost is equal to their mana cost.
Deathtouch
If Yawgmoth, The Ineffable deals combat damage to a planeswalker, that planeswalker can't be played again. Ever.
If Yawgmoth, The Ineffable deals combat damage to a player, that player can't play magic again. Ever.
If you would win while Yawgmoth, The Ineffable is in play, instead Yawgmoth, the Ineffable wins all future games of magic and expands his control over dominaria and every plane of existence creating a hellscape that lasts for all time.
11/11

>>8778447
Oh yeah, that happened.

I must remember, Gerrard is no true rival, but only the
straw villain set up to teach me my errors. He does not
truly duel me, but merely punishes me by Yawgmoth's
whim. By living and fighting, he reminds me of millennia
of failure. By dying—and he will most certainly die—he
demonstrates my victory over my wretched past.
A great rumble of falling stone brought an approving
roar from the crowd. Gerrard had battered his way into the
labyrinth. He would now transform the pickax into a short
sword, dagger, throwing darts—the sort of small weapons
that could slay in tight confines.
How transparent is the young man's mind.
As if in reply, Yawgmoth suddenly turned the labyrinth
clear. Foot-thick granite was replaced by foot-thick glass—
equally resilient, but allowing the crowd to see everything.
Urza paused a moment, considering his mental maze. It
need not merely be window glass. Let it indeed be lens after
lens, magnifying the figures within. The wall sections of
the maze warped and bulged. Each pane became a prism
and aligned itself with all the others about. The arrays had
two foci—the brilliant old man who had created them, and
the angry young man who charged stupidly among them.
The labyrinth picked up both images and sent them to
stride among the crowd.
The chorus of delighted oohs that followed told Urza
his master was pleased. What use was brute strength in the
face of such mental subtlety?
Urza, too, saw the image of his attacker. Gerrard loped
like a wolf among the panels of glass. His eyes darted
between Urza and the path ahead. He made his rapid way
inward, following footprints.

>>8778455

YOU WERE COOL WHEN YOU WERE AN OLD WALKER
NOT ANYMORE

>>8778455
no because you cost too much mana

>>8778459

>If you would win while Yawgmoth, The Ineffable is in play, instead Yawgmoth, the Ineffable wins all future games of magic and expands his control over dominaria and every plane of existence creating a hellscape that lasts for all time.

Gerrard came to ground and fell straight through, into a
black pit. It swallowed him swiftly and surely.
Urza had him. Clenching his fist, he brought the sands
of the pit into tight constriction around the mortal hero.
Gerrard was trapped. Inescapably. Though he lay encased
in sand a hundred feet away through multiple panes of
glass, it was as if he were clutched in Urza's own hand. One
squeeze of that hand, and Gerrard would be dead.
Urza had expected mad adoration from the crowd.
Instead, there was only a judging silence. Into it intruded
words in Urza's own head, spoken from myriad mouths: Is
this the victory you wish against your own creation, Urza?
The planeswalker paused, his hand half-closed in a
sweaty grip. "Victory is victory, is it not? Survival is
survival. Dominance is dominance."
It is not, came the unequivocal reply. You could have had
as certain a victory by simply outliving this man. He is mortal,
and you are immortal. Survival and dominance mean nothing if
they come about through such trifling things. You do not fight
him, but send golems and pits to do it.
Pure puzzlement filled Urza. "You cannot fault me for
this. I have outsmarted him. I have used my native
weapons."

I forgot, Yawmgoth was a nigger.

>>8778447
don't forget the 'just as planned' urza pulls when the one guy goes traitor

those magic suits are actually gigantic bombs as well. Think they were these guys?

>>8778460

Also when Urza, high on omnipotence, charged into Phyrexia the first time and got so badly fucked up by the environment alone it took ten years in a plane of pure white mana and healing for him to recover.

Phyrexia is so fucking insane that it's genuinely brilliant.

>>8778505
Urza was such a douche for never listening to Xantcha. I don't think I'll ever forgive him.

Of course, I'm only just barely into Masques, so, maybe he'll redeem himself by the end of Apocalypse.

Now Urza would fight. He would risk all and conquer.
Hands that a moment before had held only cascading
sand now held a great battle axe, a weapon without peer.
Its broad, double-sided head had the weight of a maul and
the edge of a razor. The metal haft bristled with killing
spikes. An identical, double-sided blade jutted from its
butt. Grasping the center of the metal haft, Urza spun the
blade easily. In moments, it had reached the velocity of a
rotor on a Tolarian helionaut.
Urza advanced. Hand over hand, he whirled the blade
above his head. To its spinning song, he added his voice, a
staccato recitative, "Gerrard. I created you. I preserved you.
I will destroy you. You are the offspring of a thought—an
errant and hopeless thought. Thought cannot best the
thinker."
Gerrard smiled only the more strongly. "Thought can
best a mad thinker." His swords grew to otherimplements—a great shield in his left hand and a great
sword in his right. He planted his feet, unwilling to give
the old man an inch. "I've been waiting for this all my life."
"So have I," replied Urza. "All four thousand years."
Two strides brought the heads of his axe into lethal
range. The spinning weapon clove the air. It reached for
Gerrard. Despite himself, Gerrard withdrew another step.
He lifted the shield. It was a massive thing. It would have
stopped a bull at full charge, bending the horns back.
Urza Planeswalker was no bull. His mind strengthened
the axe blades to adamantine and gave them the weight of
an avalanche. He made Gerrard's shield as soft as wax.
The axe sliced deeply through the shield. Metal
bloomed from either side of the blade. The axe cleft
Gerrard's left hand. Nerveless

>>8778498

Nah, that artifact is just one of his standard power armour suits, for the Metathran.

How would you stat 'walker power armour? Some kind of attachment to 'walker cards, reducing damage dealt to them and giving the ability "9, discard this walker from play, destroy all permanents target player controls", or similar?

he dropped his shield. It
tumbled, riven, to the ground.
Gerrard fell back a second step. He certainly had not
planned on that. He brought his sword up in sudden
hopelessness.
The second axe blade struck. It caught Gerrard's great
sword just above the crosspiece and clove through. A sixfoot
blade was shorn to six inches. In its follow-through,
the axe came about again. The head that had cleft
Gerrard's shield struck the pommel and hurled it away from
his grasp. He took a third step back, bleeding hands flung
out to his sides.
The fourth and final stroke came violently. The axe hit
Gerrard's chest. Razor steel chopped through the leather
tunic he wore, through the cloth beneath it and the skin
beneath that. It cleft the sternum as if it were the wishbone
of a game hen. The blade continued on, bisecting the left
lung and the heart ensconced there. At last, the edge
lodged itself in the young man's spine.
Gerrard hung for an incredulous moment on the blade.
Then, tipping off his heels, he fell to his back. Urza's
weapon went with him, stuck in vertebrae.
Urza towered above his offspring.
It all had come to this: the death of Gerrard. In him,
Urza had slain every false impulse, every chronic mistake
that had pitted him against Yawgmoth. The axe remained
in Gerrard's chest even as blood poured in twin rivers down
his sides.

>>8778524

No new planeswalker has the power to drive one of the things.

>>8778524
I'd make it a 'remove all permanents from play'.

I mean, there's no magic wall stopping the explosion from getting your stuff too, and it's a big-ass explosion

Releasing the metallic haft, Urza knelt beside the fallen
man. He lifted Gerrard's head from the sand. He cradled
him, uncertain whether this was the posture of a hunter
with a prized kill or a father with a long-lost son.
"You have won," Gerrard said weakly through bloodlimned
lips. "You were right all along, and in the end you
won."
Urza shook his head bitterly. "No. I was wrong all
along. I was most wrong when I made you. You are the
antithesis of all I now know as true."
Eyes rolling in agony, Gerrard replied, "It was my job to
convince you otherwise. I have failed."
"You did not fail, Gerrard. Yours was an impossible task.
You were to save me, and Yawgmoth to damn me. But I
have never wanted to be saved."
"And now ... in killing me ... you are damned," Gerrard
gasped out even as his flesh grew deathly white. The last
breath hissed from his lungs. He shuddered once and was
gone.
Releasing his hold on the fallen man, Urza stood. He
lifted his eyes imploringly toward the stands, toward the
raised balcony where sat the great, black dragon.
"This is true victory, Lord Yawgmoth. I have slain my
past. I have slain the hero of Dominaria. Grant my boon.

Let me ascend beside you, learn from you, worship you for
all eternity."
You have shown too much compassion for this young
destroyer. We had not wanted you to slay him from afar.
Neither did we expect you to cradle him in your arms and cry,
"Yawgmoth have mercy!" This is no more a victory than all
that you did before. This is reluctant ascension, not victory.
For that, I shall give you each one last chance. The fight is
to the death—no quarter, no mercy.
Nodding abjectly, Urza turned toward the body of
Gerrard. He was not surprised to discover that his axe had
been removed, and Gerrard's breath had returned.
The young man sat up, knitted together by the hand of
Yawgmoth. An appetite for death glinted in his eyes

ARGH WHY WAS HE SUCH A NIGGER Also that's end chapter

>>8778547

>ARGH WHY WAS HE SUCH A NIGGER

Yawgmoth is the incarnation of fuck you. Remember the most broken card ever?

>>8778461
>>8778520
>>8778530
>>8778542
>>8778547

Gods yawgie, you're such a total dick.

Also, opinions- Did Yawgmoth truly die due to the Legacy Weapon? the fact that Phyrexia apparently still exists makes me wonder, if perhaps a shard of himself survived, lessened by extant. Karona's testimony isn't really trustworthy, she was totally freaking insane. Its all conjecture at this point.

>>8778547

He's not. He just espouses his philosophy. He who would be strong cannot do so by defeating another. He would would be strong can only do so by defeating himself. Phyresis is the philosophy of continual and relentless self-improvement, at any price.

>>8778581

His corpse is still fucking shit up, if Urborg is to be considered.

>>8778581
He didn't die.

Why not?

Because Wizards clearly plans to bring him back.

There's pretty much no denying that "New Phyrexia" wasn't a hoax, and I think it's awfully convenient that they just released a duel-deck that happens to bring all the new players up to speed on the weatherlight-saga story.

>>8778581
According to Wizards, he isn't dead. One of the upcoming blocks is supposedly called "The return of Phyrxia."

It's fucking shit, he should have died. He had a great story, with an ending

>>8778581

Yawgmoth can never truly die.

He IS Black Mana.

Unless magic is forever destroyed in Dominia, he will still exist, even if dormant

>>8778593

If they bring him back, who the fuck can stop him?

Karn perhaps, since he absorbed most of the Legacy Weapon when he ascended. But, Karn is lost in time.

Hmm... perhaps that's what Karn saw? The return of Phyrexia?

>>8778594
>Phyrexia going back to business.

Sure it becomes an Eldrazy bathroom.

>>8778600

If he comes back, full-power... well, maybe >>8778178 will get what he wants and ye olde Planeswalkers will be re-ascending.

Or maybe the universe is right fucked.

If they have the fucking neowalkers beat Yawgmoth I will be absolutely enraged.

It took the Death of an incredibly powerful, truly brilliant old style 'walker to get rid of him the first time. Unless all of the new main storyline 'walkers get killed off in removing Yawgmoth, it'll just cheapen the whole thing.

>>8778581

No, he didn't die. It was doubted if he could actually die, and if he was even alive. The best theory right now involves the force of the legacy weapon blasting his raw energies across the planes into ineffectual shards. Others include his 'corpse' in Urborg being him dead but recovering, and him actually being outright dead.

Sayign returning from the truly dead is impossible is shallow proof. Yawgmoth never let mere impossibility stop him before, why should he now?

I'd explain my own theory but last time it took 100 posts and I don't have the time tonight. If I can find the old posts I'l lrepost them instead.

>>Implying that New Phyrexia won't be about Nicol Bolas attempting to pull a Phyrexia Gambit of his own on Mirrodin.

Seriously. Nicol Bolas has been looming over MTG as the Big Bad since fucking Kamigawa. It isn't about to stop.

>>8778615

>It took the Death of an incredibly powerful, truly brilliant old style 'walker to get rid of him the first time

Urza is actually considered the most powerful Planeswalker... ever. Among the old types.

Them eyes, man.

>>8778595

Exactly what Yawgmoth was is completely unknown. He far and away transcended mere deity status, would have been at least as powerful as the incarnation of a stable plane (had they been proven to exist), and was stronger than all known Planeswalkers. Some believe he managed to render himself the incarnation of his plane, boosted by the existence of a Planeswalker's spark at its core, though this still does not account for his full powers. Others suggest that he had conquered multipel universes and overlaid them with Phyrexia as he did to Rath and Dominaria, except with utter finality, and usurped the powers of multiple incarnate planes, thoug this is still insufficient as no number of unstable or artificial planes should have been the equal of Dominaria or Urza. Exactly how he got so powerful was the major concern of the surviving Planeswalkers after his destruction, who believed that if this happened once it could happen again. It is the biggest remaining mystery of the Multiverse.

I have a simpler view. There was no grand plan or reason, he simply did the impossible. It was, in fact, his hallmark to do exactly that, as he proved again and again. Just as one in a million have the Planeswalker's spark, and one in a million of those will be ignited, one in a million have the dreamer's ability to simply not accept the impossible as impossible, one in a million of those have the vision to see that dream made reality, and one in a million, again, have the utter determination to see that vision through to the end. They are, I would like to believe, a naturally-occuring phenomenon of the Multiverse, a mathematically-certain Reset Switch, intended to kick in eventually before flaws in the Multiverse grow too numerous for it to maintain itself.

>>8778624
So they went to all the trouble of bringing new players up to speed on Phyrexia vs Coalition history just to make the big dramatic new-phyrexia deal be some shitty generic brand version done by bolas? I don't think so.

Personally, I hope Bolas stays away for at least another block. He had his time in Alara, and if they bring him back too soon he'll lose what little cool he has left.

>>8778636

This I like again because it implies that every Multiverse must be created for it to work that elegantly. There was no original Multiverse, they simply exist in an endlessly-expanding loop of metatime.

Plus, it would make for a fantastic endgame to this lot of MTG. The Multiverse starts growing cracks, cracks that cannot possibly be repaired. The heroes try all they can to stop its erosion over a billion years, but eventually realise that they can do nothing to halt it. In desperation, they turn to the one man who never let the fact that they were impossible stoip him from achieving his dreams. Naturally, much conflict will arise as pundits wonder whether the end of all existence may not be preferable to several eternities living in a Multiverse made by Yawgmoth.

>>8778595
OK, assuming Yawgmoth is black mana, who are the rest of the mana colors?

What happened to Karn after he became a planeswalker.

>>8778611
I think it's shit he's coming back. Thematically, he needs to be out of the lore picture for good. He had a good death, and a good set of books to tell his and Urza's story. He served his story purpose as THE big bad.

They cannot bring him back without basically undoing all of Urza's and the old walkers work, making it essentually shit on as a story. I don't care if in character he could come back.

As an author, nobody should touch it.

>>8778626

Actually, it took a truly vast weapon assembled over millenia by the single most brilliant artificer ever to exist, fueled by the core of a collapsed plane of pure white mana, empowered by the spark of the most powerful planeswalker known to exist, focused through the lens of the soul of the greatest hero Dominaria ever saw and built by Urza explicitly for that purpose to MAYBE kill Yawgmoth.

Perhaps more impressively was when just before that they hit him with the full powers of the White Moon, the final weapon of the Thran, the most advanced race ever to walk Dominaria, charged up by SIX THOUSAND YEARS of white mana, and it didn't do anything.

>>8778654

Other manas aren't "ME" enough to have avatars.

>>8778655

Created Mirarii, sent out as a probe to gain information. Caused the whole Odyssey/Onslaught thing

Created Argentum, left it in the care of Memnarch (the mirarii in a new form). Memnarch became corrupted by phyrexian oil, remade the world in his image, and corrupted it, stealing life from other worlds to populate it, hoping to steal a planeswalker spark and ascend.

Meanwhile, Karn ventured around the verse, eventually meeting and training Jeska Planeswalker.

She, eventually, died to seal the final otarian rift, using her previous incarnation as Karona to carry the healing all across the planes.

Karn, meanwhile, went back in time to seal the Tolarian rift, but became lost after seeing something so terrifying he fled through time.

>>8778655

He lost it when he realised that his precious private plane went completely and utterly to nightmarish shit bcause one speck of bloodoil from one dead Phyrexian got into it and touched something.

And then nobody knows.

>>8778673

To be fair, the null moon suppressed Yawgmoth for about five minutes. Its not that it did Nothing... it just didn't do much.

>>8778678

>>Something so terrifying he fled across time

GUESS WHO MOTHERFUCKERS

This thread is deliciously fluffy.

brb reading Artifact cycle

>>8778708

If you like this sort of discussion there was an old thread at http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5759038/ that took the same topic down a different line.

>>8778689

My prediction? He saw himself leading new phyrexia

that would be a fun, kharn as the new BBEG

>>8778776

Wow... I had Not thought of that before.

What if, as well as absorbing most of the legacy weapon, Karn absorbed a bit of Yawgmoth too?

Even without that, Karn becoming a new Yawgmoth With a spark... That would be Insane and potentially awesome.

>>8778776

Beh, he doesn't have the right kind of self-improvement philosophy pushed to the point where fundamentalist is almost insultingly light attitude to ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL.

>>8778718

I have to say, I love your writing style, Dr. Baron.

>>8778787

Yawgmoth gaining a spark, even as a new planeswalker, would be pretty much game over for everyone who didn't like the idea of phyresis being the sole and fundamental goal of existence.

>>8778808
It also opens up a new weakness for him. So maybe not.

>>8778808

Remember that this would be blasted-to-hell-has-(infinitely)-less-power-this-his-former-big-toe Yawgmoth.

>>8778791
It would take some serious deus ex machina for kharn to become the leader of new phyrexia, but, as anything involving phyrexia, anything can happen.

I mean, Mirroden was his creation to begin with, so it's not that far of a stretch to think that way

>>8778820

Weakenss? Not for long. Being nearly phyresis incarnate and having the tools to perfect yourself so long as you havethe patience and the vision will do that.

The only real chance the new planeswalkers would have is for one to convince him that unless he perfects his will first he will never be able to do it, and then suggest he train with something literally impossible. It wouldn't stop him forever, but it'd buy them time to do... something. And if THAT didn't work they'd be facing an even more dangerous and determined Yawgmoth.

...They never did define who actually made Phyrexia, did they? Just some ancient, dead planeswalker. And Karn has gone back in time, is totally insane, and he's already created one artifact plane...

>>8778888

Mirrodin was Phyrexia all along!?

>>8778855

Yawgmoth didn't create Phyrexia as a plane of pseudomechanical life, he just took it as an inspiration in the capacity for the body as existing to be improved, borthing the notion of phyresis. The hyperdarwinistic nature of the world also made it a useful testing ground for bringing his philosophies to life.

>>8778888

I...

...okay, THAT possibility is entirely too horrifying to even contemplate. Poor Karn.

I thought Planeswalker Karn was still tooling around out there with all of Urza's power + a significant portion of his Legacy.

>>8778904

Karn has had a really rough life. When he was still a pacifist, someone (Cannot recall who) tortured him by using his huge silver body to crush people to death. When he became a walker, it seems his luck only got worse.

>>8778888

Ah, but Phyrexia has its dead creator at its heart, sustaining it. That's how Yawgmoth initially learned of the power of a spark, though he didn't make more progress until he vivisected FFFFUUCK YES IT'S PERFECT PHYREXIA PRE-YAWGMOTH WAS BIRTHED BY THE TWISTED DREAMS OF A CATATONIC KARN, THE SICKLY LAYERS OF ORGANIC LIFE MADE METAL BY HORRIFIC BIOCHIRURGEONIC PROCESSES THE NIGHTMARISH REVERSAl OF THE METAL MADE FLESH OF MIRRODIN.

>>8778913

He's fucked off and gone in the timestream.

Nobody's seen him in forever.

Not figuratively.

>>8778921

ARGH MY BRAIN

>>8778939
time travel tends to do that

>>8778459
>Protection from artifacts, creatures, lands, and spells [am I forgetting anything besides planeswalkers?]
I think it would be better (to give the rest of the text room) to give it Protection from Everything. Ever.

>>8778921

How, if this is what happens in New Phyrexia, I will :D

>>8778960

>Except motherfucking Urza.

>>8778963

I don't care if it happens or not. I'm applying the 40K rules here; if the fluff goes wrong, fuck it off and make your own. It just fits so elegantly with everything I've thought about the way Dimonia works and my own conspiratorial Yawgmoth theories.

>>8778921

Then, the ultimate phyresis. A combining of Mirrodin and Phyrexia, flesh made metal and metal made flesh... the ultimate evolution of the ultimate product of the multiverses greatest artificer.

>>8779000

At which point the rest of Yawgmoth, having been regenerating his many shards on countless planes reappears incarnate it the new Phyrexia, intent of blasting his way to the ninth sphere to confront the new lord and retake his dream, only to arrive at theinner sanctum and kneel before Karn. Phyrexia newborn is perfect, every creature fighting endlessly for survival, and using every means possible and some not so to improve themselves. He bows to the one who conquered his own ideals, his own flesh, his own metnality, and his own sanity, to be born once again, utterly pure. Karn strikes him, and Yawgmoth allows the fatal blow to fall, ending his life as his last essence is drawn into the one he once thought had corrupted his ideal. He no longer needs Phyrexia to achieve his dream. He has beheld the face of perfection, the finality of Phyresis, the One True Compleat.

He need not fight his enemy, fir his enemy has become him, and is more the Lord Yawgmoth than he ever was, and could ever aspire to.

And thus, Lord Karn unleashes the glorious beneficence of phyresis across the multiverse, as all of existence screams its gratitude to his ears.

Hasnt anyone here read the Ice Age cycle? The Gathering Dark in particular was actually a very good book. good story, good characters, good setting, very good descriptions of magic. Would actually make a good movie, I'd say.

The description of the big scrying spell was aswesome and sad.

"Sacrifice a Land"

>>8779081

>>8779094
The Land as Memories works really well in the books, but it doesn't quite hold up in the actual game.

>>8779081

Karn thus fulfils his destiny. He does what the Legacy was supposed to- Slay Yawgmoth. And, at last, the creation surpasses the creator.

>>8779136
knowing kharn though, after that happens SOMETHING will go wrong

>>8779112
Meh, it's an abstraction.

In Ice Age, they had the concept of Jodah scrambling through Lim-Dul's internal Mnemonic palace, breaking random shit.

Target player reveals his or her hand, and discards two cards of your choice?

Fanfiction - Sometimes better than the real fiction

(Or at least more cohesively written.)

>>8779081

Write this up. In full. Then email it to the Wizards creative department. It doesn't matter if they never use it, they just need to see it, to know its there. Perhaps they'll realise how much better Scars of Mirrodin could be, than the bland crap it is inevitably going to produce.

>>8779149
Tezzeret the Seeker meets Urza. Hilarity ensues.

Thread archived

>>8779151
Hymn to Tourach

Target player discards 2 cards at random

>>8779183

I think it'd be better if they had actually written both of the big theories I made out of /tg/ discussion, just for the image of one employee browsing sup/tg/, with the MTG story bible on the desk, scratching his head in confusion.

>>8778418
Balanced because he dies instantly when it enters play and it cannot be played by conventional means because there are no manacost in the corner nor alternate ways of playing it.

Greatest game evar!

>>8779186
It occurs to me that Venser hasn't been seen since Future Sight but is now a planeswalker and still alive.

There's certainly some fluff space to be explored between him, Tezzeret, and Karn in an Artifact-themed block...

>>8779440
What happened to the mostly-blue Alara shard Tezzeret's from, anyway?

God Tier - Artifacts Cycle
Top Tier - Kamigawa Cycle, Ice Age Cycle
Mid Tier - Ravnica Cycle, Legends Cycle, Invasion Cycle
Low Tier - Odyssey Cycle, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor Cycle, Masques Cycle, Legends II cycle
Shit Tier - Onslaught Saga, Mirrodin Saga

How bout it, /tg/?

>>8779708

Invasion and Rav are high, if not top, tier. Ice age wasn't that great. I liked kamigawa, but it was mid tier at best. Odyssey/Onslaught were so similar they should be on the same level.

>>8779708
swap invasion/kamigawa

yes I'm wearing my nostalgia goggles, no I won't take them off

>>8779708
Tempest and Urza's Cycles are God Tier.

>>8779734
Ice Age has variance, Mirrodin started out interesting but then went to shit, Ravnica likewise.

Ravnica: the only city where, when you kill someone, you can get in more trouble for not disposing of the body than the actual murder (public health hazard).

Provided it doesnt disrupt trade and such, murder isnt illegal.

Ravnica's books were pretty bad, but the setting, themes, concept, flavor, etc were super awesome.

>>8779782

The books were awesome magic noir. Maybe not to everybody's taste, but I loved them.

>>8777420
>sorin markov
>new
>not 1000's of years old

>>8779802

Is he a godlike being formed of pure mana? No? Then he's a new planeswalker.

>>8779837
by that standard the eldrazi are old planeswalkers

>>8779885

To be a planeswalker, you must have The Spark and it must have awakened. To be an old style planeswalker, you must be a transcendent entity of pure mana. The Eldrazi lack the spark, and they aren't so much of mana as beyond mana, with neither definition really fitting.

>>8779885
Maybe... eldrazi ARE old plainswalkers who somehow escaped the Timeshift spark downgrade.

>>8779977

or they're the horrible side effect of the planeswalkers losing their godpowers

>>8778615

This is exactly what will happen. The neowalkers will gather together, under the black death cloud of Y@wgmoth. They will then get their PokeBalls (tm) out, and put on their licensed Mattel (r) armor. Then they will use the power of love and friendship to send him reeling, and explode him in a cloud of white mana, because as everyone knows, white mana is the only good mana. Because white mana is all about lawful good paladins and soldiers fighting for just causes.

CAN I GET A HELL YEAH?!

>>8779361

I remember that game, does someone have a torrent of that?

>>8780101
I liked it when Urza was all like, "You know that second moon? Yeah, its a White Mana Battery I put in orbit thousands of years ago as a backup plan."

>>8780101

Obvious, obvious troll. And yet, I raged ;_;

Now I need to go back and read those colour defining articles on the Wizards site (Assuming they're still around) to calm myself down

>>8779885
How do eldrazi scale to planeswalkers anyway? I mean some planeswalkers are obviously more powerful, like Urza or Nicol Bolas, but what about the more "normal" range of planeswalkers? Are they more powerful than the eldrazi or not? By how much?

>>8778626

Also, what's funny is that there's a theory on Phyrexia.org that Urza was never meant to be a Planeswalker. The Mightstone and Weakstone combined gave him his planeswalking powers

>>8780132

Nah, bro, I wasn't trolling, I was being sarcastic. 'Cause you know, deep down in your carcass of a heart, you know that's what Hasbro wants to do.

Where the fuck did this guy come from?

>>8780388

Oh look. Wizards jumped on the Twilight bandwagon. I NEVER SAW THIS COMING!

>>8780112
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5428468/Microprose_Magic_the_Gathering_2010_Custom_Installer_ISO

>>8780400
Most of Zendikar is Vampires, bro. Where have you been?

>>8780388
Probably Ulgrotha, from the Homelands set.

I cant believe i missed most of this thread, there were literally tons of opportunities to derail it entirely.

>>8780156
Eldrazi are pretty much on par with player planeswalkers.
Have you seen those fucking cards?

>>8780697
Yeah, and they're not really that close to being 20/20's with numerous abilities per turn.

That said the consensus of this thread seems to be that player planeswalkers are more powerful than the norm, if there really can be said to be any norm among planeswalkers.

>>8778165
Jhoira wasn't a 'walker dude.

>>8780417

Fuckin' eh, thanks man.

>>8777418

Newbie mtg players are new planeswalkers while us old schoolies are REAL planeswalkers.
OR
Standard tourneyfags are new planeswalkers while us old school casual-fags are REAL planeswalkers.

>>8782054

Yep, they need to learn how to sling spells and create their own combos before they can join the big league crew.

A point of order.

book 'walkers were never as powerful as player walkers.

>>8779094
>implying urza wouldn't be a huge tourney fag.

>>8782054
I'm not sure if I've read the ice age set, the torrent I got my hands on had messed up numbering and it appears to have left it out entirely.
What really shits me is never getting to read about serra and her adventures after urza fucked up her plane.

>>8782370
Well yeah. Urza could care less about lesser planeswalkers battling each other for accolades. that kind of shit was always beneath him.